Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  05/01/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  ** August 2022 we paid c. $15,000. not including tax, delivery or installation, to Berkeley Heat for a Finnleo ********* Northstar outdoor sauna. It came with a 2-year warranty for parts and on-site labor. Shortly after installation by a Berkeley Heat authorized installer, the lower door hinge came off and was repaired under the warranty,. Recently the entire door was found on the ground but this time Berkeley Heat blamed: (1) the location. The location, however, couldn't be more secure for an outdoor sauna. It is not only under a deck, but also within a fenced area, (2) the wind as an "act of god" which they claim voided the contract. No other item in the area, however, was disturbed. This included a cotton towel, a plastic pail and a small lawn chair. If the location were any more protected, it would be an indoor sauna! (3) Berkeley Heat mentioned that there was a small vent under the seat that should be closed to prevent air entering and building up pressure that could blow out the door. This appears to be an obvious design flaw and is not included in the instruction materials we received with the sauna. In brief, we'd like the sauna door repaired, or the full amount we paid Berkeley Heat refunded, since without a door we're unable to use the sauna.

  Business response

  05/15/2023

  To those whom it may concern,

  An Outline of events beginning Saturday, May 28th 2022:

  Please note that *************** lives 3 hours out of our normal service area.
  *************** inquired about a Finnleo manufactured sauna and proceeded with payment over the phone to have a site-visit completed.
  She received a site-visit from ***********, an independent contractor trained in the installation and repair of Finnleo saunas, accompanied by his team. They gave the green light for the project to begin.

  After this, she continued inquiring about Mikks Work, which is welcomed as we want a full understanding to be reached, however this included assumptions that parts of his work would be free or that he and his team members would be liable for things that did not have to do with them. This led to **** retracting his offer to work with her as he and his team not only were made uncomfortable by her by manner of speaking, but also did not want her to hold them accountable for things they were not involved in.

  Payment was collected for the sauna itself on June 7th, 2022 (receipt and invoice file attached)

  Once payment was accepted and the sauna was ordered she realized she would need a substantial amount of electrical work to be completed before the final installation, for this she referred to a man who works with **** as an electrician on his team.
  After the sauna was ordered we talked to **** and ended up convincing him to take on this job, thankfully he agreed. The electrician offered to do his work on the same day **** began his installation. 

  Once the sauna was ordered and it was on track for delivery, she threatened to refuse delivery. This is not an option as the $13k sauna was being delivered from a special freight company coming from *********, it's not as simple as you change your mind so you send it away. Her reason for trying to decline the sauna kept changing, first it was so the electrician and the installer can work on the same day, then it was a doctor's ************ then it was because she was busy with other things, and then she was out of the house that day. These are all reasons that could be understandable, however the sauna delivery is unchangeable by us once ordered and she refused to accept this fact. However we were able to align everything just right for her with luck on our side.

  Once the sauna arrived, its installation and wiring was satisfactory and she used it unbothered for half a year until her first issue came up.
  On January 7th, 2023, her lower door hinge on her saunas glass door had snapped off. Our initial response to her was within an hour of her reaching out to **, and we advised a local handyman to fix it for her as it's as simple as a few screws. She then declined this solution, and asked for **** to come service her instead.

  This type of issue is unusual and there was no clear answer as to why, but ******* was kind enough to send a replacement for her. She then demanded we expedite her service from Mikk, Attempting to Surpass all of his other clients scheduling, this was not a possibility as Mikk is an independent contractor and not an employee of Berkeley Heat Tubmakers LLC.

  Before installation was scheduled she had contact with ***************, a Finnleo employee, who notified her when the hinges initially shipped.
   As a response to having her service confirmed, she reiterated her belief of ** trying to void her warranty by recommending a local handyman instead of requesting our contact to make a 3 hour trip to install screws. She received the hinges free of charge, and **** to come out to her house again as requested. We then paid out of pocket to service her and were not reimbursed for this. Her first service was completed February 3rd, 2023.

  April 14th, 2023 *************** contacted **, informing ** that her sauna door had fallen off. She notes that the hinges provided were too small for her liking and that the area she lives in does in fact have strong winds occur as per living in a coastal area. Mikk Informs her that the hinges and screws provided by Finnleo are the only parts he would be able to use in the repair. ******************* also noted that strong winds would cause a possible pressure difference, pushing the door of the sauna open, he then cited their warranty to explain Finnleo would not be covering this damage as they deemed it an act of god in this case, strong winds.
  On a separate email thread Nic (branch manager of Berkeley Heat LLC) reached out to Finnleo asking for guidance on this issue such as how to proceed with the repair, and warranty claim. We received insight from Finnleos warranty department staff letting ** know that strong winds are the most likely culprit making the sauna not covered under warranty. The conclusion that was found is that the sauna hinges and latching mechanisms are ideal and not interchangeable with other options, the only way to avoid wind entering the sauna and opening the door from the inside would be to close the rear vent when not in use as adding any form of lock on a sauna could cause entrapment. Referencing the photographs sent in by *************** we can see that the hinges were dented signifying they were over-extended. This case was deemed as not a warranty covered issue.

  *************** reached out to Mikk to attempt scheduling a repair date, and **** notified her of the following:
  It looks to me like an extreme windy situation. I'm not sure if ******* will classify the situation as a warranty issue. I have installed close to 100 same types of doors and no one so far has had problems with the hinges. Your warranty is limited in some ways. It does not cover earthquakes, flooding and hurricanes the same way. We are always ready to come and help you with the fix, but I'm not sure if the manufacturer warranty will cover it again and again. .

  On May 1st, 2023 *************** Emailed ************** Directly to inform him she wanted to appeal their decision due to the fact wind couldn't possibly be the source of the issue, as the sauna is located in a mostly protected area, going back on her previous statement that she did in fact live in an area with high winds. In this same email she tells ***** she wants the sauna to be fully covered under warranty and if they do not yield to her, she would want them to pay the entire cost to refund her sauna.

  On a separate thread, **************************** notes there is no claim to appeal as they sent the hinges free of cost even though the warranty did not apply in this case. This information as well as details discussed  above were promptly sent to *************** to have her on the same page as us by Berkeley Heats Warehouse Manager, ************ *************** took this email as **************** issues on things she couldn't see as possibilities, these possibilities included wind, unknowingly over-extending the door, and general location. She goes on to claim that none of these options are possible and the only answer is that ******** sauna design was deeply flawed. She was then informed by ******* that they have sold over ****** of these units without issue, leaving the only option to be an act of god or some sort of user-error.

  Throughout this process she has had contact with *******, the manufacturer of the saunas we represent, at some point she also got ahold of their telephone line meant only for dealer support. She has been calling their dealer-only line relentlessly for weeks, to the point of Finnleo reaching out to us begging to find a way to make her stop. She has ignored every request we have made of her to discontinue this behavior stating she will contact whomever she deems necessary.

  After this request she posted negative reviews about our company, as well as Finnleo before we got the chance to schedule her repair, as well as sent in a complaint to the Better Business Bureau. She has said she is willing to withdraw these reviews and complaints, but only after we complete her service. We have responded to her as soon as we were able to every time she has contacted us, bent over backwards attempting to find a solution for her that she would be happy with, and have maintained a professional demeanor in the face of her blatant verbal abuse. We find this is another tactic to hold our business hostage and are requesting this complaint be removed so we may proceed with this case without further issue.
  

  Customer response

  05/18/2023

   
  Complaint: 20005025
  
  I am rejecting this response because: See my response.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  **********************************************

  Customer response

  05/19/2023

   
  Complaint: 20005025
  
  We am rejecting this response because Berkeley Heat has given their view of events going back to our purchasing the sauna; so wed like to clarify their narrative to include what was conveniently left out, or misrepresented, before we  address the current issue.

  1) PURCHASE & INSTALLATION: Before purchasing the sauna on June 7, 2022, we made it very clear to Berkeley Heat that we were not interested in putting together a sauna kit. We emphasized that wed only be interested in the purchase if they could guarantee an installer who would also coordinate their sauna installation with the sauna delivery, since we did not have any space to store it. We were told that the sauna availability was 10 to 12 weeks. That was fine with us since wed be very busy and traveling before then. We also were told the sauna: will arrive here at the store. We will inspect for damage and then deliver to you. How surprised and upset we were to find out the sauna was on its way to ** directly from the factory and was to arrive much earlier, on August 17, 2022, without being inspected for damage and without being coordinated with the installers schedule.

  2) FIRST INCIDENT: Berkeley Heats comments failed to note that our sauna warranty guaranties 2-years of in-field labor coverage to replace defective parts. So when the sauna door first came unhinged on January 7, 2023, just just a few months after it was installed on August 22, 2022, we were concerned that the warranty would be voided if we followed the instructions given ** by Berkeley Heat: Do you have a handyman you can ask for help? It sounds like an easy fix. The repair included replacing the sauna door hinges. What should have been a quick response under our warranty, took a month before the sauna door finally was repaired under the warranty for the first time, on February 8, 2023.

  3) THE CURRENT INCIDENT: On April 14, 2023, just 2 months after the first incident, I went out to use the sauna and was shocked to find the sauna door on the ground. When I contacted Berkeley Heat and the installer that same day, I was told to forward photos which I did. The installer replied to me that same day: There must be very windy situations or total failure for ******* design. I'm sure ******* will replace the hinges as a warranty issue. It should be noted that it was not **, but the installer who assumed the possibility of a very windy situation." **** continually attributed the sauna door problems to a design flaw. *******, however, conveniently picked up on the windy speculation and decided that the door fell off as an act of god and thus was not covered under their warranty. We asked about exactly what outdoor conditions the ********* ******* outdoor sauna was built to withstand, and how normal outdoor air movement apparently was not considered in the design and testing of an outdoor sauna. These and other questions we asked about the design and testing of the sauna, the sauna door, and the sauna door hinges still have not been answered by the manufacturer. It wasnt until we contacted the Better Business Bureau that the manufacturer even finally agreed to repair the sauna door, under warranty, for the second time. Even then, however, Berkeley Heat refused to go ahead with the approved repair unless we took down our Better Business Bureau complaint.

  Finally, Berkeley Heat and the manufacturer had the installer attempt to repair the sauna door. The installer and his crew were able to reattach the door with yet another set of new hinges on May 18, 2023. They decided, however, that it was necessary for them to add additional security to the door by attaching a bungee/shock cord to the door handle, which they did with the manufacturer and our agreement, without voiding the warranty. We, nevertheless, consider the need to add a bungee/shock cord to secure the door on our new sauna, evidence of a design flaw, and we continue to be concerned that the sauna door problem will continue.

  We have no interest in causing any problems for Berkeley Heat or the sauna manufacturer and we do not have any complaint whatsoever with the installer and his fine crew. We do, however, expect Berkeley Heat and the manufacturer to honor their verbal and written promises, in a timely manner: Weve waited for a second month to have the same sauna door repaired: It was only a few months ago, we had to wait a month for the very same repair, after having been given many excuses for their not helping **. As a result, we want:

  (1) The manufacturer to extend our 2-years in the field warranty coverage for an additional 2 months, to make up for the 2 months of delays and excuses during which time we were unable to use our new sauna. Specifically, we want our 2-years in the field warranty coverage extended from June 7, **** to August 7, **** and honored without delays or excuses.

  (2) Berkeley Heat and the manufacturer to provide ** assurance that they would continue to make the necessary repairs promptly without delays or excuses if the very same problem should occur again beyond the warranty expiration date.

  (3) A refund of the full amount we paid for the sauna, If the same problem with the sauna door continues beyond a reasonable number of repairs. 

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ******* & ******************************************

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