Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  09/27/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Bought a Palomar Icon laser with **** laser hand piece back in late January 2023. Contact person was *********************. He promised a fully functional system with handpieces.He went on claiming he is in the **** fastest growing companies and that I will get a fully working product. He claimed he did an alignment on the main piece which is the **** handpiece. I wired $22,000 on January 24th 2023. ********************* delivered the laser himself on January 28 2023. On February 2nd we tested the -so called fully functional, **** handpiece. Error with water flow problems. Handpiece not cooling and not delivering any energy. He said to ***** the handpiece to him. The handpiece was sent to him via ***** and he said his technician found major trouble with the main component- The Rod. He said he will replace it. It took him forever to send it back and we finally received in March. However, we immediately got red flags with calibration errors. He was defensive claiming it should not as it is a brand new $4500 rod. I had my local technician check it and he confirmed it is a major energy problem. I reached out to ********************* again and he asked for $600 to send his tech again. This is for again the so called fully functional handpiece. The Tech came and spent 5 minutes only working with some wires. Since then we tried the handpiece once and it worked. This was in April 2023. This is 3 months after purchase. I had to leave the country and come back and we resumed operations in June/July 2023. Sure enough, in July 2023 we got the same error again. This should not happen for a brand new rod. I called him and he was super defensive claiming that we have to pay again for it's repair. I called my local technician and he confirmed the following: They bypassed calibration by bending the fiber. The Rod is not new. Both fiber and rod are defective. This was a major fraud and it will take at least $4500 just to repair. This hand piece is about $10,000. What a shame.

  Business response

  10/03/2023

  Doctor ******* Purchased this unit WITHOUT A WARRANTY, AS IS, as he apparently had a technician that could repair the laser after sale, and just wanted the best possible pricing. This is stated on his invoice. Before purchasing our team sent his technician multiple videos of the unit working and firing with all handpieces using a power meter to show the power output of each handpiece was in specs. His technician approved the sale of the device as all the videos showed the laser was functional. After this video and payment, the doctor asked if we had a ************************* finding a good **** handpiece. We gave him direction but did not sell him one and as a courtesy included a few distance gauges and protective eye wear for the **** handpiece (which had nothing to do with us) as well as glasses for the handpieces that we were providing.  The doctor said he appreciated the gesture and was very happy with the free items that we did not have to include. After receiving the unit, the doctor stated that he did not understand how to unplug the handpiece so we facetimed and showed him how. 5 days after, the doctor complained that it was his first time testing the **** handpiece and that it did not work. We told him to put the **** handpiece into a box and that we would purchase the shipping label (again a courtesy). The doctor then complained that his staff was getting an error 022 on the unit with another handpiece plugged in. ************** drove 4.5 hours free of charge to his location to find that the handpiece was not plugged in properly. This shows his incompetence in operating this device. 
  
  To conclude, in his complaint there is proof of contradiction and negligence. Not only does he state that the hand piece was working in April but he also states that he left the hand piece sitting for months as he stated. The laser has a water filtration system and after usage, the **** hand piece has to be used every 3-4 weeks to prevent corrosion on the rod. Let me explain, every time the hand piece is fired, it records pulse counts. He used ***** pulses and is claiming to have used it once only. He is a fraud and we will forward his information to our legal team. His own words show contraction and the pictures confirm that he is lying once again!  

  Customer response

  10/05/2023

   
  Complaint: 20638042
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

   

  1- They are stating: Doctor Kashlan Purchased this unit WITHOUT A WARRANTY. 

  They did promise a fully working system as stated in their initial texts.

  They system failed too many times from day # 1

   

  2- The seller stated: Before purchasing our team sent his technician multiple videos of the unit working and firing with all handpieces using a power meter to show the power output of each handpiece was in specs. His technician approved the sale of the device as all the videos showed the laser was functional.

  Simply: it doesn't matter what is the machine doing on your end. 

  The machine comes with several hand pieces and they are ok except for the most expensive one the ****. It failed miserably and this is a $10k handpiece. 

  3- The seller stated: After this video and payment, the doctor asked if we had a ************************* finding a good **** handpiece. We gave him direction but did not sell him one and as a courtesy included a few distance gauges and protective eye wear for the **** handpiece (which had nothing to do with us) as well as glasses for the handpieces that we were providing.  The doctor said he appreciated the gesture and was very happy with the free items that we did not have to include.

   

  Answer is simple: This few freebies that cost few hundred dollars are not the main concern here. 

  Not sure why you are bring this up? 

  4- Seller is saying: After receiving the unit, the doctor stated that he did not understand how to unplug the handpiece so we facetimed and showed him how. 5 days after, the doctor complained that it was his first time testing the **** handpiece and that it did not work. We told him to put the **** handpiece into a box and that we would purchase the shipping label (again a courtesy). The doctor then complained that his staff was getting an error 022 on the unit with another handpiece plugged in. ************** drove 4.5 hours free of charge to his location to find that the handpiece was not plugged in properly. This shows his incompetence in operating this device. 

   

  Answer: This is not true. 

  We owned a palomar for more than 10 years. 

  The problem was that the handpiece is not calibrating. 

  5-  Seller is saying: After receiving the **** handpiece ************** found that the rod inside was broken, which was odd, so we had to order another rod to replace it. We shipped back the handpiece with the new rod as a courtesy since we were not obligated contractually to repair it. Upon receiving the handpiece, the **** gave an issue with calibration, which happens 50% of the time when a rod is replaced because the machine was not calibrated to the new rod energy. Upon receiving correspondence of this issue, we asked the doctor to pay for the technician to travel to him to calibrate, which was $900 just to cover the travel. The doctor agreed to pay and stated that this was fair since the last time ************** drove to his location, there was nothing wrong with the unit it was just user error. On march 30th we received confirmation from the doctor that everything was perfect, see screenshot number 1 for correspondence. 

  Answer: 

  I don't believe your replaced anything. Handpiece gave trouble in no time. 

  I had a palomar and **** handpiece for 10 years with no issues. NOW your handpiece fails like 4 times in few months and we are to blame!!!

   

  5- Seller continues on defensive mode. 

  We have a failed handpiece and we owned same machine for more than 10 years with no issues. 

  We have a mtce guy who comes periodically for all needs and we are up to date with all mtce needs. 

  We know better when it comes to basic care. 

  Our tech did confirm that handpiece was fixed in a primitive manner and rod was not new and it was broken to begin with. they were able to bypass few runs and we ended up with it working like twice but it failed calibration right after that. They don't want to take responsibility. 

  I've dealt with multiple laser sellers but never had such a sad experience. 

  My complaint here is to warn others of such bad customer service and to stay away from this seller. 

  I am not really expecting much more in return but wanted just to let everyone in this industry know of such a horrible experience

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***************************

  Business response

  10/11/2023

  He is stating that he has over 10 years of experience correct? First picture attached is shows he could not change the hand piece and needed a manual.
  He purchased this unit AS IS, in working condition as he stated. Picture #2 shows that he confirmed that everything was working for MONTHS. 
  In picture #3 our representative was complaining that it is hard to continuously give him support for free on a laser that is not under warranty. The customer responds that he appreciates that. 
  To anyone who is reading, it is clear that this guy is a complete liar. He made this complaint on the basis that he had used the hand piece once and it didnt work. He then messaged us saying he only used it 3 times in which we sent pictures in the previous response. After us sending PROOF that he used it nearly ***** pulses (which is AT LEAST 30 PATIENTS) he then states that the hand piece "failed like 4 times in a few months" . 
  It is easy to conclude that he is simply trying to take advantage of us. He appreciated us working for free, but when its time to pay he creates this ridiculous complaint with LIES. 
  To better explain, the machine he purchased is a $110,000 machine BRAND NEW and it comes with 1 year warranty. We offered him this same exact machine REFURBISHED (which is reconditioned) with the same 1 year warranty as NEW for $40,000. He did not want to pay anything above $20,000 and agreed to buy it AS IS without a warranty for $20,560 plus tax. After using it for months with over 30 patients (based on nearly ***** pulse counts) he decides to file a complaint based on LIES to try and get another freebie. 
  We never had a complaint on BBB for a reason, because most customers are ethical. We take pride in taking care of our customers. I would have never imagined that a DOCTOR who has to take The Hippocratic Oath which is an oath of ethics, would publicly try to deceive the system with lies. Our legal team will be reaching out to the ******* ***** of ******** to make a complaint. 
  
  

  Customer response

  10/11/2023

   
  Complaint: 20638042

   

  Look at the attached from Jan, Feb, March. 

  Error upon Error upon Error with a faulty handpiece from the get go
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

   

  1- They stated: 

  He is stating that he has over 10 years of experience correct? First picture attached is shows he could not change the hand piece and needed a manual.

  Response: 

  This is not the core of issue. Why are trying to create a diversion of your lack of professionalism as a seller. 

  Why are trying to ignore the original problem with you selling a faulty handpiece that you bypassed with primitive old tricks according to a laser repair expert!!

  To answer your questions anyways: 

  This is the Icon unit. Handpiece attachment is slightly different than ******* which is the old version. 

  What is wrong with asking for a manual? Should not a manual come with an expensive device I buy from a !reputable! seller???

  What is wrong with asking for guidance in placing the unit considering it is different that the original *******. We did not want for force the handpiece and contacted you considering it is a newer platform! Where is the problem with that?

  How does that relate to the original complaint!!

  2- Again you say: 

  
  He purchased this unit AS IS, in working condition as he stated. Picture #2 shows that he confirmed that everything was working for MONTHS. 
  In picture #3 our representative was complaining that it is hard to continuously give him support for free on a laser that is not under warranty. The customer responds that he appreciates that. 
  To anyone who is reading, it is clear that this guy is a complete liar. He made this complaint on the basis that he had used the hand piece once and it didnt work. He then messaged us saying he only used it 3 times in which we sent pictures in the previous response. After us sending PROOF that he used it nearly ***** pulses (which is AT LEAST 30 PATIENTS) he then states that the hand piece "failed like 4 times in a few months" . 
  It is easy to conclude that he is simply trying to take advantage of us. He appreciated us working for free, but when its time to pay he creates this ridiculous complaint with LIES. 

  Answer:

  I tried to stay profession all along. 

  I didn't call you a liar. I didn't attack you on a personal level. Still I am not going to go down to this kind of street language. I will not place myself on same level. 

  To answer: 

  You said AS IS. But also: You said: Fully operational. 

  I will attach my first communication with my laser repair guy in Feb/March. 

  The handpiece failed to calibrate!!!

  The rod is fried. 

  Yes you took it back but it failed in no time with minimal usage. 

  We have an arsenal of lasers and more than 20 over the years. Do you see I complained about this to any similar problem to BBB. ofcourse not. 

  Bottomline: You are a greedy unprofessional business. 

  3- You are saying 
  To better explain, the machine he purchased is a $110,000 machine BRAND NEW and it comes with 1 year warranty. We offered him this same exact machine REFURBISHED (which is reconditioned) with the same 1 year warranty as NEW for $40,000. He did not want to pay anything above $20,000 and agreed to buy it AS IS without a warranty for $20,560 plus tax. After using it for months with over 30 patients (based on nearly ***** pulse counts) he decides to file a complaint based on LIES to try and get another freebie. 

   

  Answer: 

  Again why are you bringing up the machine price as new or otherwise?

  Are you saying you did us an act of charity??

  Are you saying we paid a low price tag and so we should expect a terrible defective no good machine. 

  YOU promised a fully functional machine with no issues. The machine failed 3 times in a short period of time.

  The $10,000 Icon **** handpiece is sitting on the shelf waiting to be recycled. 

  Where is your honor as a seller. 

  I am customer who paid you a FULL price that we both agreed upon, so don't bring up price tags that don't belong. 

  4- You say: 

  he decides to file a complaint based on LIES to try and get another freebie. 

  Answer: 

  This is the last thing I am looking for. 

  You keep your pennies. 

  I just wanted the truth to get out. 

   

  5- You say: 

  I would have never imagined that a DOCTOR who has to take The Hippocratic Oath which is an oath of ethics, would publicly try to deceive the system with lies. Our legal team will be reaching out to the ******* ***** of ******** to make a complaint. 

  Answer: 

  Yes I did take the Oath and you didn't. 

  Please file a complaint by all means. There is nothing to hide and more to show

   

  Look at the attached from Jan, Feb, March. 
  Error upon Error upon Error with a faulty handpiece from the get go
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***************************

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩