Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  06/21/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  04/27 Contacted via messenger for services 04/28 company sent estimate w/o looking at electrical services needed 04/28 Contacted by company to view residence to check for cloth wiring 05/01 Met electricians at residence. They did not look at the wiring just the 100 amp box 05/02 2nd Estimate sent $750 higher than original -electricians noted more work= higher cost. No added work was added.05/15 Asked for a couple plugs for 220 appliances to be added - upped cost by $1200- I declined the service 05/15 estimate for same service is now only $800- declined the service 05/22 Electrician provided services at residence BUT workmanship was shoddy and not all of the work was done. 05/23 City Inspector came to inspect installation, etc. 1- masthead wasn't attached securely to the house; Electrician did not check with the city engineer before moving location of masthead; no shut off was attached to the masthead; the ground wire was not secured to the house and not covered 2-City inspector noticed new wiring- wrong type of permit pulled. 3- Inspector checked the basement- the 100 amp box was replaced by the 200 amp box provided BUT no electrical shut off and no run wires were attached to the 200 amp box. There were several code violations. Electricians said all work had been completed. The wires were to be attached to the panel. The inspector contacted the electrician (on speaker phone so I could hear) and asked the electrician about the permit, the location of the masthead and if they received permission to relocate it then went over all of the code violations. The electrician pleaded ignorance to most of the issues. I terminated services after receiving a call from the Manager blaming me for the reason the inspection failed. Manager was hateful and disrespectful. I had her on speaker phone and my sister listened to the entire conversation. No resolution. Not sure I want inept electricians back at my house.Would like a refund of $1391.85

  

  Business response

  06/24/2023

    Owner reached out to us on ********* An average estimate and information was exchanged through messenger and over the phone before viewing the property. Once we notified *************** that all the electrical had been ran by the customers son, *************** increased the original estimate (averaged over the phone) to $4500. All averaged estimates were only discussed as we gathered information over phone and messenger. The owner was only sent One estimate, agreed to this estimate, and paid a deposit. Electrician only changed original averaged price due to having to check and connect all new wiring ran and make sure all old wiring was properly disconnected, and troubleshoot. (since it was not ran by a licensed electrician).The only estimate sent and agreed upon was for a total of $4,500. The deposit paid was $1,350 to our company and a 3rd party processing fee of $41.85. Owner asked to add on wiring the stove,dryer,and water tank to the 200 amp box. As well as installing the correct plugs for them all. A $1200 average was given over the phone when asked , but once spoke to electrician the estimate was made for $800. We only created this as a draft due to customer deciding her son was going to do it, so this was never sent to customer.(only discussed over messenger).
  
  
  *************** pulled One permit and it WAS the correct permit. Although, the city of ******** failed to tell my electricians at the permit office that they needed to contact the engineer to get approval for where masthead was being moved to. Even though the electrician did not contact the engineer beforehand, the engineer notified that where the masthead was placed was an acceptable location and she confirmed the location. All wiring WAS inspected and no k*** and tube was found live anymore. The electrician carried out his scope and removed the old service, added the 200 amp new service, ran the pole to the house, ran wires from panel to masthead and connected, and inspected and fixed minor wiring. This included all permits, tags, and materials. All of this work was done clean and correctly. All of this work passed inspection.
  
  
  The inspector went on vacation right after the inspection was performed. He did not write up an inspection before he went on vacation .It took us multiple days of reaching out to the city over this issue to finally get a note of what the inspector wanted done. Once we were finally able to get a formal inspection report, we confirmed the inspector wants a disconnect added and for the electrician to sleeve and make sure ground is secured. According to the formal inspection report there are NOT several code violations and this request has never been asked of our electricians in the ************ area. Due to this issue, we have reached out multiple times to the customer by text,phone call,and messenger trying to schedule a day to come take care of this issue for reinspection. 
  
  
  Browns Demolition LLC has notified the owner of this issue and has tried contacting her multiple times. She is aware we are needing to come back to add a disconnect , to sleeve/secure the ground, and complete panel connections. Although the panel is not mentioned on the report, the panel is a part of our scope to complete. Electrician did not complete the panel because he misunderstood the way we wrote out his scope. Browns Demolition has been committed to completing this scope, but the owner has refused communication since day of the inspection. It is not uncommon for inspectors in different cities to want things done differently. It is not uncommon to have to go through inspection more than one time. All work that was completed by my electrician passed inspection except for what the city has asked to add. The city is responsible to notify the electrician at the time the permit is pulled to contact engineer etc. Nevertheless, the full scope can be completed in less than 1 day, work was done clean and correct(except what city wants added), permits and materials were paid for and used on property, my electricians have been paid for the entire scope and work they completed, and we were not given the chance to come back out and use the second scheduled Labor Day to complete this scope. The owner can not have service turned on until a licensed electrician has completed our scope. The owner also may need the extra scope she did not agree to completed before she will be allowed to turn service on depending cities decision. It is in the best interest of everyone to complete our scope and allow property to pass the inspection. For these reasons specified, the owner has already been notified that no deposit can reasonably be returned. Since owner agreed to service, had service done, is neglecting our communication, and refusing to let us carry out our scope, she has already been invoiced for the total remaining balance as stated in her contract.
  

  Customer response

  06/26/2023

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  [Provide details of why you are not satisfied with this resolution.]

  I made it very clear from the beginning my son ran the wires and I needed the wires connected to a 200 amp box which I provided. Plus I needed the wires run from the 200 amp box to the mast head which needed to ber attached to the house. ******* Demo agreed to attach the wires without issue. The text message said $3750 for all services without looking at what my property needed. I mentioned the house originally had cloth wire which my son replaced with proper wiring. I was told in the messages this was fine and the electricians would handle it. 

  After the electrician completed the job, I was told I had to be at the house for the inspection. Per our text messages, I wanted the electrician to handle all contact  with the city for the permit, inspection etc. I had to call off work at the last minute to be available for the Inspector. The inspector told me all the reasons he was going to not pass the masthead including asking me why it was moved. Once in the house, the inspector went to the basement as well as I did and saw all the wires that were to be connected to the 200 amp service just hanging. The inspector called the electrician ---- had him on speaker phone while I stood there and listened. The inspector asked the electrician about the type of permit he pulled and why since it was considered a re-wire job even though they did not pull the wires. The inspector explained the masthead needed to have a disconnect and the ground wire needed to be sleeved from disconnect down to ground and needed to have a four system ran to panel.   He asked the electrician about the unconnected wires and the electrician stated he did not know who pulled the wires. Which was not true as the day the electrician came to my house to inspect for cloth wire, they saw the wires, and I had a conversation with him that my son had re-wired the house and the wires needed connected. I re-iterated that with ****** who stopped in while her electricians were at the house. So the work was not completed. And he did know who wired the house. The inspector also asked the electrician if they had received permission from the city engineer to relocate the masthead. He said no. Inspector provided the electrician with a number and name of city engineer to get this issue fixed.  After the phone call I spoke with the inspector regarding the wiring being pulled by my son. He  had no issues with it. In fact, he stated it is a grey area with electricians as to whether they will finish the wiring. 

  I messaged ****** to let her know the inspector failed the wiring for various code violations. She  had already received the news from her electricians. She said the electricians were on the phone with the inspector about the masthead. I had to correct her. The electricians were to be on the phone with the engineer. This is noted in the attachment dated May 23, 2023 10:18 am. In this communication, ****** is mentioning additional costs even though she stated that the cost will NOT go up once the invoice is signed. 

  From this date on in the message, is when all becomes heated. I decided I needed to cancel services because they were going to start charging for any costs tied to the masthead even though she said I would NOT have additional costs. ****** states her electricians have done everything properly. They did NOT attach the pulled wires. As professionals who work all over *******, etc, I would expect the company to be experienced enough to check with each city regarding codes and such before doing work such as moving a mast head. I had a new roof put on my house. They had to put a hole in the roof to relocate the masthead. If the masthead had to be relocated, who would repair my roof? Would they add on charges for that as well? 

  Next ****** called me and I had her on speaker phone with my sister present to hear. ****** was yelling by that time and saying the only reason the inspection failed was due to my son having re-wired the house. As mentioned before, the inspector had no issues with that. ****** continued to blame my son. Then she said my son would need to find an electrician friend to go to the city and pull some report and sign off on my son's  wiring work. She said her electricians could not do it because their name was already tied to the work/permit. I asked if I paid her electricians $800 would they be willing to pull the report and sign off on my son's work? She said YES! I was shocked. She continued to place blame elsewhere. Then ****** stated she would have her partner reach out to me since she was at another job site. 

  I received 2 phone calls. I did not answer because I did not recognize the number. In the message *********************** stated who he was and he needed to speak to me regarding finishing the job. He mentioned a permit was pulled and no one could finish the work. He did send a text message that simply stated they had been trying to reach me. 2 phone calls? I checked with other electricians and found out that I did not have to stick with Browns Demo because they pulled the permit. So the phone message *********************** left was just a tactic to push me to let them continue. By this time, I truly doubted the capabilities of their electricians. The inspector felt that any electrician should not have made some of the mistakes that he encountered at my house with the electrical. 

  Fast forward to the Saturday 9:57 am message I received a week or 10 days later...from ******

  In the message she states ****, the city engineer only wanted a support for the masthead and the electrician had already done that. No- he had not. The new electrician has a kit ordered for this as nothing is in place. Note in this message ****** once again places blame on someone other than her electricians. She notes that ******** and ****** operate differently than any other city in the state. I would hope if a company is going to advertise as a company doing business all over *******, they would at least know to check out codes, etc in the area they intend to work. 

   

  I have a copy of a text message between *********************** and the city inspector.

  City inspector to ******- "Needs to have a disconnect and ground wire needs to be sleeved from disconnect down to ground and needs to have a four system ran to panel."

  ************* to Inspector- When can I get a legit report?

  Inspector to **************- I don't know who you think you are to talk to me that way but not gonna happen. You're not gonna get any other report than what I told you. If you don't understand the report I have, get a licensed electrician to explain it to  you. You will not message me and talk to me that way period. Dated June 8 at 3:25 pm 

  The conversation listed above just shows the type of company ******* Demo is. 

  The work was shoddy and NOT completed. I purchased the wire, and the 200 amp box. They brought a masthead with bands to attach it to the house which were too small to reach around the pole to the house. 

  
  Regards,
  
  *********************

  
  

  

  Business response

  07/03/2023

  The owner signed and agreed to pay a total of $4,500 for electrical service. This included installing 200 amp overhead service, and installing Existing circuits, and all materials,permits,tags. We provided all materials except for the 200 amp box because customer already had that and wanted us to use what she had. On the day of inspection (05/23/23), **** notified me the panel had not been hooked up and she failed inspection. I immediately reached out to my electrician. I notified ********************* that he was on the phone back and forth with the city engineer and the inspector. During this time, same day as inspection, ********************* unfairly decides she immediately wants a refund and will not let us back out to the property. Her reasoning in the message said she spoke to another electrician. There was no fair or professional way to handle this situation until we received formal paperwork from the city to know how to go about the scope of work. This took us 10 days to receive and we notified her in the mean time that we have to wait on the paperwork. By this time, the owner is not responding to any calls or messages, unwilling to work on a solution even though she was provided with the report,and would not allow us back to the property. My electrician did not hook up the panel because of miscommunication with the way his scope was written out. Browns Demolition made it very clear *************** wants to come back out and hook the panel up, and sleeve the ground and add a disconnect. We have no problem completing this service or doing a 4 system to panel. The owner is adamant about a deposit refund of  $1,350 (my business received), but has no regard to the service that was completed correctly, the materials bought and used on the property, the time and effort my company spent to get the proper paperwork that she paid for, or even the money my company lost paying my electricians for a service that my business was never paid for or allowed to complete.
  
  
  As stated in our first response, my electrician did not call the engineer before moving the masthead because the permit office did not notify my electricians to do so. This is the job of the permit office! Although, my electricians got the OK once the engineer came out to inspect the masthead. Therefore this is NOT an issue. The correct permit was pulled. My electrician did not sign his name to wires pulled by someone else because he can lose his license for that, which is why I had to revise his scope from my business. The inspector even notified the owner that the electrician may not do this because it is a grey area. If the inspector knows the owners son did the wiring because the owner told him, then my electrician comes in and claims he did the entire job this is such a grey area if the inspector wanted my electrician could have been hit with a lot of liability and even lost his license and she still would have failed inspection. So no, my electrician did not tell the inspector any information that could have been used against him and signed his name to his work only because the scenario worried him and he needed me to write the scope a certain way to be able to complete this with no issue or liability. This was dealt with day of inspection and his scope was revised day of inspection and he tried to immediately get back out to the house which was denied.
  
  
  The owner speaks of extra price mentioned in messages from May 23, 2023 at 10:18a. The message is speaking of any extra costs for any permits or tags which the owner was responsible for as stated in her estimate. I do now see how this could be miscommunicated and we apologize for the misunderstanding. The owner had a signed contract which we notified her can not change with her after being signed. My next message explains I would keep her updated with a plan of action .Even with the misunderstanding, the owner fails to relay that no extra charge for permits/tags was necessary per what the engineer wanted and that no extra work was necessary either because the engineer had no problem with what my electricians did. I have already provided proof of an $800 draft created and never sent for work owner wanted to ADD ONLY. The owner keeps trying to say we changed the price but I have already provided proof that the owner signed and agreed to only one price before and after service was completed and this price was never changed nor did the owner receive any other estimates or invoices to this day! Even though the owner claims that a price change ( that never even happened) is what made her decide to cancel, the owner already explained in the same message that she wanted to cancel service because she spoke to another electrician. This proves the owner was never willing to work with our company over this scope and shows why it has been drawn out to this point today. 
  
  
  The owner was contacted by my electrician, me, and my partner multiple times. Nobody ever yelled at anyone over the phone, and the owner continues to throw around emotions and feelings to make my business look unprofessional. Although, referring back to all the facts and confirmation provided I have proven my business has stayed professional and honest through all of these events. My business has completed a little over half a scope and only thing we need to do is spend a half a days work at the most to have her scope completely finished and able to pass inspection. One again this will include to add a disconnect , to sleeve/secure the ground, and complete panel connections. We will also do a 4 system to the panel with no issue even though not mentioned on the formal inspection report. As stated in my previous response this is not abnormal and electrical work is a process. We have already pulled permit and connected the masthead and completed the 200 amp service and removed the old ( just need to add disconnect and sleeve), we have already completed the line from pole connecting to house, and we already inspected and checked the wiring. Owner claims to have bought more materials for this to be done by new electrician but I have already provided pictures of these things installed currently by my electrician. The owner herself admitted to know nothing of this scope when she asked if she had to be at the property for inspection and continued to lie about my response. The result of having no knowledge of electrical work and mixing feelings into business has created an issue with no professional, fair, or reasonable way to come to a conclusion to carry on our scope.
  
  
  The owner was never told she had to Miss Work or Be At The Property. I have provided proof of my specific words being No. It is always good to be but no you do not have to be as long as they can get into the property. This is proof that the owner is not being completely honest with her stories. All Browns Demolition is willing to do at this point is complete the service. We can not reasonably give back a deposit that was rightfully used for her property. My business was not treated fairly and was not given any option to make things right as we tried multiple times to do before it escalated this far.
  
  
  I also wanted to acknowledge the judgmental comment from the owner about my partners request for her paperwork. My partner used the word legit in place of the word formal. Contractors are not English majors. As well as we were handling this issue as we are working on multiple other projects and these messages were conducted while driving because we were working desperately to get this issue taken care of. The message was a written message and the inspector took the message out of context because of that one word. I have provided the REST of the conversation with my partner explaining. Although my partner did not use the wording I suggested, the inspector understood and then sent the formal report. Dates can be checked on documents provided to confirm that. 

  Customer response

  07/07/2023

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  
  

  ******* Demo  has not provided proper information regarding this concern. The work was not completed before calling the city inspector to inspect the property. Quality electricians would not contact the city to inspect if the service was not ready. Along with the slandering of my son stating to me and my friend who listened to the phone conversation, that the whole issue for the code violation was due to my son running the wiring. Obviously they knew my son had run the wiring just by this statement yet the electrician told the city inspector on a phone call in which I was part of that he did not know who ran the electric for the city. I terminated service due to lies, lack of proper service and slander of my son as well as the fact that ****** stated on the phone I would need my son to find a friend to go to the city, pull the proper report/form, sign off on it then the electricians could move forward with the electrical. But WHEN I asked if I could pay them an extra $800 if their electrician could do this for me...the answer was yes.  So one moment it was my son's fault and he has to find an electrician to sign off on the wiring but in the next statement from ******, her electricians can do such with more money.

  I am willing to only pay for what little ******* Demo did to my house. Install a pole half way, with ill fitted brackets, (no ground cover on the ground plus no shut off); install a 200 amp box I purchased (did not install breakers....or attach wires to it- how in the world did they think an inspector could pass that?); hot water tank not connected- no wiring run.

  1350 is more than sufficient for the 3 hours the electrician was at the house performing shoddy work and NOT completing work. 

  And I had no choice but to call off work when ****** informed me the city inspector would be at the house the next day since her electricians were not going to be there. Someone had to let the city inspector into the  house. It was last minute notice to me. I had told ****** many times I did not want to work with the city. She assured me that her company would handle all interactions with the city. If that was the case, why was I told I needed to be at the house for the inspection? 

  Long and short- the work was not done properly or completed to satisfaction of the customer prior to contacting the city inspector. Along those lines, anyone in the trade they are in should realize different cities have different rules and it is the company responsibility to know such information prior to starting a job in a city they had not performed work in before.  

  
  Regards,
  
  *********************

  
  

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