Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  01/24/2025

  Complaint Type:

  Customer Service Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I purchased a flag and flagpole combination from Liberty ****************. Shortly after installing the unit, I noticed that the flag didn't swivel properly. The flag spent most of the time wrapped around the flag pole. I contacted Liberty first by phone and then with a series of e-mails that included several pictures showing how the flag looks. I have two flags next to each other and one is always blowing nicely in the wind and the Liberty flag stay mostly wrapped around the pole. I feel like this is a design issue or a construction issue with the swivel and have asked Liberty several times for some solution or to provide me a return authorization number. They have flatly stated that they will not provide me any further help or a return. My last phone conversation was with ****** on 1/24/25. Liberty should stand behind their product and provide customer satisfaction.**** ****** Chesterland ****

  Business response

  01/24/2025

  Liberty Flagpoles prides itself on providing high-quality products and excellent customer service. While we are sorry that Mr. ****** feels dissatisfied with his flagpole, we believe the complaint misrepresents the situation.

  
  Background:

  
  Mr. ****** purchased our Liberty Wall Mount Flagpole (***************************************************************************************) on September 30, 2024. After installing it, he contacted us with concerns that his flag occasionally wraps around the pole in windy conditions. He has compared it to a second, inexpensive flagpole purchased on ****** that he mounted on the same tree, claiming that the cheaper pole performs better.
  Our customer service team has responded promptly and repeatedly to Mr. ******* explaining the following:
  1) Flag wrapping is a universal industry challenge: The wrapping of flags around poles is influenced by wind speed, wind direction, and environmental factors. It is not unique to our product. While there are products designed to minimize wrapping, such as swivel mechanisms (which our flagpole includes), no design can completely eliminate wrapping in variable wind conditions.
  2) Placement impacts performance: Mr. ****** mounted his Liberty flagpole above his Amazon flagpole on the same tree. The upper flagpole naturally experiences stronger gusts of wind, creating more opportunities for the flag to wrap. The lower pole, shielded by the upper one and the tree itself, is exposed to calmer winds and thus behaves differently.
  3) 30-Day Return Policy: Mr. ****** contacted us well after the return period, making a refund or exchange no longer an option.
  4) Customer Guidance Provided: We suggested several potential adjustments, including altering the flagpoles angle. Mr. ****** declined these suggestions and continued to insist that the wrapping issue stemmed solely from our product design.
  
  Addressing ******************************** acknowledge Mr. ******* frustration, but his expectation for a flag to remain perfectly unwrapped in all conditions is unrealistic. This is a widely recognized limitation in the flagpole industry, and even the best products cannot defy the laws of nature or guarantee wind cooperation.
  
  Furthermore, Mr. ******** comparison between his Liberty flagpole and a cheaper Amazon alternative is misleading. A pole placed lower on the same tree will inevitably face less wind turbulence. While we appreciate the compliment to Amazons $50 flagpole, we stand by the quality and durability of our premium product, which is built to last far longer than plastic models.
  
  Our Stance:
  
  Liberty Flagpoles has fulfilled all obligations regarding this purchase. Mr. ******* dissatisfaction stems from environmental factors and installation choices rather than any defect in our product. As such, we cannot offer a refund or replacement beyond the terms of our return policy. We encourage Mr. ****** to experiment further with adjustments to the flagpoles angle or consider a swiveling attachment if he wishes to reduce wrapping further.
  
  Thank you for the opportunity to respond.
  
  Sincerely,
  The Liberty Flagpoles Team
  ******************************

  Customer response

  01/31/2025

   
  Complaint: 22854104
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  There seems to be confusion surrounding the details of the correspondence between me and Liberty flagpoles.
  Let me first say that that one of the things that made me decide to spend $300 with this company was a big banner on the about page of the Liberty Flagpole website that proudly says Satisfied or refunded We offer the highest quality products in the industry and back them.  So, when I first got the flag, I was trying to work with the supplier on a resolution and also to provide some data regarding the performance of the flag and not just ask immediately for a return.  Most good suppliers appreciate the option to work with a customer on a solution and not need to issue a return.  Ultimately Liberty Flagpoles fell back on the 30-day window for a return.
  
  The response above talks about the flag occasionallywrapping around the pole.  This is factually incorrect. In my attempt to provide the company with data during the multiple rounds of e-mail exchange, I documented a test I had performed over a 14-day period. Every day about 2pm I would walk to my mailbox and make a note of how both flags were flying. On 12 of the 14 days, the liberty flag was in some stage of being wrapped around the pole and not flying freely. On only two days was the more inexpensive Amazon flag not flying freely.  This is significant difference by any measure.
  
  The suggestion about changing the angle of the flag is a bit of a head scratcher.  The comment from Liberty Flagpoles was that the cheap Amazon flag is at better angle to prevent wrap and I should change the angle of the expensive Liberty flag to match.  The angle of the flag is controlled by the mounting base that is part of the flagpole kit. When I pressed the customer service person on this, she said I should put a shim under the bracket to make the angle closer to the angle of the Amazon flag. This is a tacit admission that the design of this $300 expensive Liberty flag is certainly not optimal if you telling customers to shove a piece of wood under one side of the bracket to make the flag perform better. And that would likely require longer screws.
  
  I read the suggestion about flag placement with a heavy dose of skepticism.  While it is generally true that wind speed is higher at higher elevations, Im able to find nothing online to suggest that the wind speed is much different at 15 feet as opposed to 8 feet.  If this is a real scientific issue,why dont I see anything on the Liberty Flagpole website suggesting a minimum installation height?
  
  To be clear, I was never expecting this flag to never wrap around the flagpole. My expectation was more realistic. That if I bought a good quality, expensive flagpole from a reputable company that advertised satisfied OR refunded on their home page, The flag would proudly fly at last as much as it stayed wrapped around the pole. I dont feel that is an unreasonable expectation.
  
  One last point.  I received a survey/review regarding this flag from Liberty Flagpole which I filled out to document my issues with this flag.  Interesting that my survey has not appeared on the Liberty Flagpole website. Is this just a timing issue or does the company only publish the 4 and 5 star reviews?
  My position remains unchanged. This flag has design issues,and I tried my best to work with Liberty Flagpoles on a solution.  Liberty Flagpole should refund my money or in the alternative provide me with a comparable flag and flagpole that will fly proudly and not wrap around the pole at least the majority of the time.
  Respectfully
  **** ******
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ******

  Business response

  01/31/2025

  While we understand Mr. ******* continued dissatisfaction, his response contains several misunderstandings and mischaracterizations that wed like to clarify.
  1. "Satisfied or Refunded" Policy

  
  Mr. ****** references a phrase from our website but seems to interpret it as a blanket return policy without limitations. Our actual return policy, which is clearly stated on our website, allows for returns within 30 days of purchase. Mr. ****** contacted us well beyond this timeframe, which is why a return was not an option.
  Additionally, "satisfied or refunded" does not mean a product must perform outside the realm of physics to qualify as satisfactory. The industry-wide issue of flags wrapping in the wind is something no flagpole manufacturer, no matter the price, can eliminate entirely.

  
  2. The Data & Performance Expectations

  
  Mr. ****** meticulously documented the flags behavior over a 14-day period, noting that his Liberty Flagpole wrapped more frequently than his lower-mounted Amazon flag. However, this observation does not account for well-known aerodynamic principles:
  --Wind behaves differently at different heights Despite Mr. ******* skepticism, this is basic meteorology. Higher elevations experience stronger, more turbulent winds. Thats why wind turbines arent installed at ground level. The top-mounted flagpole is naturally exposed to stronger gusts, increasing the likelihood of wrapping.
  --A second flag below the first will have more wind obstruction His lower-mounted Amazon flag benefits from being partially shielded by the upper flag and the tree itself, reducing its likelihood of wrapping.
  --No flagpole on the market guarantees a flag will never wrap We state this openly and honestly. Our product is designed to reduce wrapping with a swivel mechanism, but no mechanism can eliminate wrapping 100% of the time.

  
  3. "Shimming" the Bracket & Design Concerns

  
  Mr. ****** is misinterpreting our recommendation to slightly adjust the angle of the flagpole. The angle of installation naturally affects how wind interacts with a flag. In some situations, a minor adjustment can help reduce wrapping.
  This does not indicate a design flaw but rather a common-sense modification based on environmental factors. Many industries, from construction to mechanics, use shims for fine adjustmentsits not an unusual practice.

  
  4. Claiming We "Hide" Reviews

  
  Mr. ****** implies that his survey response was ignored or censored. Liberty Flagpoles does not selectively filter reviews to exclude negative feedback. Reviews appear after a moderation period to prevent spam and inappropriate content, but all legitimate customer reviewspositive or negativeare posted. If Mr. ******* review has not yet appeared, it is due to timing, not selective moderation.

  
  5. Unrealistic Expectations vs. Industry Reality

  
  Mr. ****** now claims he "never expected the flag to never wrap" but insists it should remain free the majority of the time. Unfortunately, weather conditions vary, and no flagpole company can guarantee specific wind behavior. His complaint is not about a defective product, but about nature itself not cooperating to his satisfaction.

  
  Final Position

  
  Liberty Flagpoles has gone above and beyond in addressing Mr. ******* concerns, offering explanations, troubleshooting suggestions, and alternative solutions. However, the root cause of his complaintwind dynamicsis not within our control.

  
  Mr. ****** received exactly what he purchased: a high-quality American-made wall-mount flagpole. While we understand his frustration, this is not a product defect, nor does it warrant an exception to our return policy.
  Therefore, our position remains unchanged.

  
  Sincerely,
  The Liberty Flagpoles Team

  Customer response

  02/07/2025

   
  Complaint: 22854104
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I appreciate the time that Liberty Flagpoles has spent to defend their position that they are unwilling to provide me a return or refund on this flag.  I see no point in continuing to dispute these same facts.
   I have always been a big flag guy and have had several flags mounted on this tree over the years.  My brother is also a flag guy and has several flags at various locations at this house. The concept of flag wrap is real, it happens, and I get it.  But based on my many years of fun with flags,this expensive Liberty flag/flagpoles has a significantly bigger issue with wrapping around the pole than I have ever experienced before.
  I stated my case, with data and Liberty Flagpoles has declined to refund my money so at this point I think we will need to agree to disagree. 
  My position remains unchanged. I feel that this flag has design issues, and I tried my best to work with Liberty Flagpoles on a solution.  Liberty Flagpole should refund my money or in the alternative provide me with a comparable flag and flagpole that will fly proudly.
  Respectfully
  **** ******

  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ******

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩