Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  04/10/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  BBB unable to locate business

  More info

  I paid in advance for a jump that is scheduled in May 2024. This is actually a reschedule because the company cancelled it the first two times we reserved a jump, I tried to reach out to the business in regards to my upcoming reservation to learn that they are closed with a disconnected phone number and an email that is bounced back. Every other source to contact them is closed. They just pocketed my money and closed the business without a refund or contacting me about my upcoming reservation.

• Initial Complaint

  03/24/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I paid in full for the student skydiving program at the beginning. I pay them to provide a safe professional space to teach me. That's the agreement. At jump 17 on 11/14/21 I worked with a coach named ***** who was very manipulative, unprofessional and lied about our jump together. This was witnessed by other instructors and staff throughout the parts of my jump. My altimeter proves that I passed. Which I ended up showing the staff. My request was that I didn't have to jump with her again and two different staff members said I wouldn't have to jump with her again. A few weeks later when mgmt was on vacation ***** tells me we can jump together that weekend. I immediately reached out to management asking why she would think that when I was told that "it would be taken care of" and he never responded. After this I decided to reach out to ****, the owner, who when I prefaced the conversation about what I wanted to talk about he immediately shut me down -saying that he couldn't help me with "gossip". I want a refund of my $802 remaining balance that I still have left there that I can't use. I am no longer comfortable jumping there because I had to ask several times not to jump with her. I'm also not comfortable that she runs the place in a sense and that going there would put me at risk of another experience like what I had. Her claims and treatment of me on my jump were outrageous and I went to 3 different staff members (separate from owner) at least two times, but overall I would say that I asked for help with the situation with various staff 10+ times before going to mgmt. A student shouldn't have to ask this much for help. I want to clarify that I have no issues with the staff. This complaint is against the owner. The staff have been very kind and helpful to me, but I see now that they can only do so much with the owners approval and if the owner won't listen to me, a student paying him-that says a lot.

  Business response

  03/31/2022

  Business Response /* (1000, 5, 2022/03/24) */ Contact Name and Title: ************, Owner Contact Phone: ************ Contact Email: ************************* Transcript of conversation with customer in question from ******** Messenger below dotted line. As you can see I offered my assistance and the customer declined to discuss the situation with me. I cannot fix a problem that is not discussed with me and further the customer appeared to be content after our conversation. We have a strict no refund policy posted on our website and in all our reservation systems that all customers are aware of. As mentioned, the customer is welcome to transfer her balance to any other customer. Futhermore, we have not denied the customer service, in fact we would love to have had her complete her license with us via one of our other coaches that she does not have a problem with. For the record, the coach in question apologized for the misinterpretation of customers pull altitude on the 14th of November which exceeded the typical 3-5 seconds we teach our students to count to after leaving the plane but the customer clearly did not accept that apology. Finally and most importantly, a coach telling a student they waited too long to pull is the exact opposite of being unsafe. Perception for students, coaches and instructors is very different and having a different perception of an event is not lying about an event. ------------------------------------------------ 12/4/21, 8:54 AM She sent Hey ***** can you tell me how much of a balance I have in my account? And also, I can transfer my money to anyone right? December 4, 2021 12/4/21, 11:32 AM You sent Hey where you been lately? Is your account in burble with this name? She sent Hey, my name should be ************** in the system which is my actual name You sent I just know first names and faces You sent You are showing 802 positive balance December 4, 2021 12/4/21, 1:16 PM She sent I also don't have my real name on here because I hate*** so there's that lol She replied to you Original message: You are showing 802 positive balance She sent Ok cool. Thank you. Can I still transfer my money to anyone? I don't know if the policy has changed on that. December 4, 2021 12/4/21, 3:15 PM You sent Yes you can. You arent skydiving anymore? December 5, 2021 12/5/21, 1:48 PM She sent I'm just taking a step back from tsc right now. You sent Im sorry to hear that! If theres any problems or something you need help with let me know. You sent I may only be the gas station attendant but I listen well December 5, 2021 12/5/21, 2:50 PM She sent Being 100% honest: I dont know that I want to even say it, because what is bothering me, has bothered others, and has not been received well by you then, so I dont think saying it now will make a difference. You sent Thats disappointing to hear though it doesnt really give me the benefit of the doubt either about situational context. When people corner me in the middle of operations and want a decision made on the spot about whatever that makes me grumpy. Having a conversation like this that I can consider without the strain of trying to keep my tandem and fun jumper customers moving gives me a much better opportunity to listen. But beyond that you also have to consider that there is a lot of gossip and stories that get told that are only have a smidgen or particle of truth to them. It seems to be fun jumpers favorite past time sometimes and it would be nice if they listened to why certain things operate a certain way because there usually is a very good and very boring reason behind almost everything. Unfortunately the more juicy, sensational story typically gets snapped up. You sent Either way, be safe wherever you may land. We actually do care that our young jumpers stay safe. December 5, 2021 12/5/21, 3:32 PM She sent Thank you for answering my questions about my account. You take care also. Consumer Response /* (3000, 7, 2022/03/25) */ stay on topic and stop twisting the narrative. I wasn't scared. I was annoyed and turned off by the neglect and lack of professionalism. I did the jump by myself. The altimeter proved she was lying and exaggerating. Still waiting for you to address why ***** (file originally sent to you) would reach out to me asking if we could jump together if she had been addressed properly in the first place. Again, Before this happened I was told by***** that ***** had spoken with her and that "it was being taken care of". If it was taken care of, she wouldn't have messaged me and he would've been able to respond. But he didn't respond. And then reaching out to you didn't get me anywhere either and that's why we are here. ****** also told me I wouldn't have to jump with her and yet I still was having to deal with her. The "apology" is irrelevant when I'm not comfortable jumping with her, or jumping there. This is about neglect due to your lack of professionalism. You were not, and still are not open. That's why we are here right now. You are the owner. I encourage you to talk to your staff. If you really cared you would talk to your staff and be open unlike how you have been with me. Just because you have a great relationship with ***** doesn't mean other people do or have to. This is about a business which you have failed me as a customer. The end. You have shown me no effort. Only excuses. Do better. Business Response /* (4000, 9, 2022/03/29) */ Laser focused on topic and I'd suggest the same to you as no mention of you being scared is in my initial response. In addition, you doing the jump by yourself is expected, its a hop and pop and has no bearing on this discussion. To summarize: You are upset a volunteer coach spoke to you again after perceiving you took too long to open during a hop and pop because it took longer than you feel it should have for word to filter through two AFF instructors and a DZ manager back to the coach in question. Furthermore, you refused to do conflict resolution in person with the coach in question or gave the obviously false perception to them that everything was ok. You also erroneously assume that as the owner of the business that I have to be aware of every conflict that occurs at the dropzone. You also expect me to understand that things actually arent ok after my only involvement in this particular conflict is a vague*** messenger discussion where you again incorrectly assumed how I would respond based on the gossip you've bought into. The reason you "didnt get anywhere" is because you didnt actually try, perhaps you should take some personal responsibility here. First of all, I employ instructors and managers and empower them to solve problems without my oversight, otherwise why employ them in the first place if I have to handle every disagreement? While technically our*** messenger conversation below, fully 2.5 weeks after the fact when details about the situation in question were already starting to fade was the first time I heard about this situation, its clear you declined to actually provide details to me and I respected your choice and didnt press you. If you were actually interested in resolution, you would have discussed the matter with me in November in detail and allowed me to address it instead of waiting 3-4 months to escalate when everyone in question who perceived the situation as incredibly minor barely recall the problem after working with dozens of other students since then. The second time I heard about this situation was in this complaint. Secondly, you have a disconnect with how skydiving instruction works. It is not an exact science and the number of variables involved are extremely complex. As students, fun jumpers, coaches and instructors progress, we learn to perceive or "see" more and filter out things that are irrelevant. We use altimeters for exactly this reason, to provide a precise tool for a variable that is critical to safety and not have to rely on perception which varies from person to person. It is impossible for even the most experienced instructor to be as accurate as an altimeter especially when viewing an object from a plane moving at 100+ knots in a climb while the object in question falls in an arc towards the earth. To suggest anyone is lying because their perception doesnt match the altimeter is frankly unreasonable and incredulous. That would be like an astronaut trying to calculate their re-entry burn with an abacus. In closing, at this point I have spoken with my staff and since I am a professional, I wont regale you with their perception of your complaint at this point. The coach in question reached out to you in good faith, apologized and offered to rebuild any loss of trust by actually jumping with you rather than just see you out as she prepared for her own jump at full altitude. Unfortunately you had already decided for other reasons that was not acceptable and no second chances would be given. Think about that for a moment, if we operated like you are here, you would have had no chance to make it through the program since everyone makes mistakes, especially students. Ultimately even a gas station attendant can tell it seems the only person unwilling to resolve the conflict here is you. It should be crystal clear to the public and BBB at this point that TSC has offered to resolve the conflict by completing the A-license training program for the customer in question as agreed to on 6/30/21 and the customer has declined multiple times. No other resolution options will be forthcoming.

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩