Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  06/19/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  Fence install June 2021, which cost $14,000. On day of install, Tom Leader told me there was a potential for problems with fence posts and footers due to not being able to install them the way they wanted. Subsequently, the fence began falling over just 6 months later by Dec 2021. Leader fence attempted a temporary fix in the summer of 2022 that I said wouldn’t work and wasn’t the permanent fix we discussed. He then decided that the fence was fixed in a permanent way and is structurally sound, but if the fence starts falling again that he would return in the spring of 2023. The Fence began falling over again by Dec of 2022. Despite numerous text, calls and emails, they have not returned to fix it. I have pictures and videos of the fence posts and footers from when they were installed as well as after each time the fence began falling. They didn’t remove old fence footers from my previous fence and some of them were in the way of the new footers they were putting in which is why the footers didn’t hold up. Also, some of the footers they installed weren’t dug deep enough which caused the footers to heave and split. A neighbor of mine is a soil engineer and he assessed the fence issues and said that the problem with the footers is due to poor installation. I have emailed Tom Leader and he has either provided an excuse as to why he hasn’t fixed it yet or most recently hasn’t responded to my last few emails. Tom has said he has had health issues and a surgery, but I’m sure his company and crew has been taking on new jobs this year in his absence. It’s not acceptable that it’s been 2 years and the fence isn’t fixed properly. I’ve been very understanding and patient throughout but I need assistance so I’m reaching out to BBB as well as the AG. In addition, I’m considering taking to social media with the pictures and videos of the failed fence.

  

  Business response

  07/05/2023

  BBB spoke with the owner of the business and the following was relayed: We have a signed contract.  In that signed contract there is a 1 year warranty.  It is beyond past the 1 year warranty at this point.  Regardless though, I've gone above and beyond for this customer.  I've been out there about 4 times already.  Right after we installed the fence, there was a storm and one side of the fence took a hit from the wind.  I tried telling him that this was an insurance matter and that he should contact his insurance company but he didn't want to do that.  So anyway, I went out there and re-did that part of the fence for him, OK.  I fixed the fence for him after it was damaged by a storm.  Listen, I told him that he has a major drainage problem in his yard that's going to give him problems.  I told him this even before I accepted the job.  In the signed contract it says that I (business) is not responsible for anything that the homeowner does himself.  811 will not mark anything done by the homeowner.  I tried to politely show this part of the contract to him but he didn't want to hear it.  So AGAIN, I went above and beyond and submitted the claim through MY insurance.  It cost me about $1,100.  The insurance company paid the customer and this guy never used the money to fix it!  OK, and this guy he wanted the dirt from the holes we had to dig moved off his property.  Again, that is not in our contract.  But he insisted.  So AGAIN, I spent $1,200 of MY money to get the dirt removed.  Now, that's 3 favors that I did for him!  That's 3 times I went above and beyond because I always try to go above and beyond to make the customer happy.  And he's still not happy.  Third strike.  As of of November 10, 2022 I've had major health issues and I am currently not allowed to work for at least 12 weeks.  I've told him all of this.  He doesn't care.  I am done with this.  And you know what, I was actually STILL willing to go out and fix it for him but I'm done now.  I've been out there 4 times, did 3 favors all while outside of the contract warranty and then he files a complaint and says he hasn't heard from me.  

  Customer response

  07/10/2023

  This is Steve Ellis regarding complaint #********. I spoke with you on the phone last week. I tried submitting the 2nd clarification response but it wouldn't go through when I clicked on the proceed button.  So I called BBB today and the rep told me to email you the response and attach the photos because maybe it was too large of a file. I attached 2 pictures on this email and I'll send the other pictures in a second email. Let me know if you get all the pictures ok.  Below is my response. 1 year warranty - install june 2021 - issue began dec 2021 and he has addressed this same issue 4 times with the last time being 7/1/22.  Tom says a storm in Dec of 2021 is responsible for fence failure.  According to **** (manager at ******* ****** ***** where my fence came from - ************) my fence can withstand winds up to 80-90mph and according to **************************************************************************** the worst wind day in Dec of the week i noticed the fence leaning was gusts of 56mph and sustained wind of up to 39mph, well below the threshold. No other fence in my neighborhood sustained any damage.  The improper install of the footers and posts are what caused fence failure. On the day of install, Tom told me they weren't able to get down as deep as they wanted when digging the footers.  According to ******* ****** Installation guide - footers should be 6 inches lower than the depth of frost line in your region.  Cicero, NY has a frost line of 42 inches (according to an email with kate fiorello at the cicero town office) so my posts needed to be at 48 inches (42 frostline + 6 inches past). They also filled the footers with concrete all the way up to ground level.  As per Country Estate Installation guide - Footers are supposed to be filled 6-9 inches below ground level and filled over with dirt so the footers get locked into place underground to help prevent cracking and heaving.  ********************************************************************************************************   In addition, our contract says they will pull old footers where necessary.  However, multiple footers from my old fence were left in the ground and in the way of the new footers, which didn't allow the posts to be centered in the new footer. These 3 mistakes are what caused the footers to freeze, crack and heave (see pictures) which caused my fence to lean.  Tom states he's done 3 favors - With regards to the french drain they hit (which I told him where it was before digging) - he never used his insurance ("$1200 cost to him") and no insurance company gave me any money.  I got a quote from a contractor to fix it for $675 and I told Tom that I was going to take that amount off of the remaining balance i still owed him for completing the job. That's not doing me a favor, that's called righting a wrong.  Tom says he's been to my house 4 times while outside the 1 year warranty is untrue....he's been here 4 times for the same exact problem each time and all his visits were inside of the 1 year warranty except for his last visit on 7/1/22 (2 weeks after 1 year warranty date).  Tom mentions he removed the dirt from the post holes, which the contract says he's not responsible for.  However, he only did that because in addition to hitting my french drain, they also hit my electric dog fence line (which I told them about before digging) so he agreed to remove the dirt for me due to hitting my electric fence.  Again, not a favor just righting a wrong. Tom says the contract states he is not responsible for anything the homeowner does themselves, which is supposed to mean he's not liable for hitting the drain or the electric fence.  I don't see that anywhere on the contract I signed, not to mention I did point out where those 2 items were prior to them digging. Tom says that he told us we have a drainage problem before he accepted the job.  I don't recall that, but if that were the case, how did my original fence that stood in the same spot for 17 years stand without an issue?  Furthermore, why wouldn't he do everything he could to ensure the footers and posts were going to hold up by installing them properly considering he thinks there might be an issue?  If he felt he couldn't do a job that would be durable then why did he take on the job? Perhaps he should've given me a chance to use another fence company who is capable of doing the job instead of charging me $14,000 for a fence that would only stand for 6 months prior to the footers even being exposed to it's first freeze and thaw cycle. 

  

  Business response

  07/27/2023

  The following was relayed to BBB by the business owner: He has pictures, I have pictures.   I have a picture I took in October that shows I went out there and the fence was good.  It lasted the entire winter.  Look- long story short there is no making this guy happy.  I did everything PLUS more in my opinion to try and make him happy while inside of the warranty.  I was out there numerous times.  It is now outside of the warranty.  Again, i did everything PLUS some while inside the warranty to try and make him a satisfied customer but nothing worked to appease him.  It is now outside of the warranty that is in our signed contract.  Thank you,   

  Customer response

  08/01/2023

  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. The fence didn't last the entire winter (from 2022-2023) like Tom states because I communicated to Tom via email on 12/13/22 that the fence was leaning again. Since the fence originally failed, Tom has cited, the weather, COVID, not having any workers, being on vacation, a sick mother, being ill himself and needing surgery as to reasons why he wasn't able to get the fence fixed. However, I'm sure his crew and his business were still taking on new jobs!  I was more than fair, patient, understanding and reasonable throughout this ordeal watching him attempt to fix the same footers and posts multiple times instead of pulling the posts and resetting the footers like he and I discussed. I believe anyone who paid $14,000 for a fence that was falling over in less than 6 months and has continued to fail in the same manner over and over during a 2 year period would eventually become frustrated and unhappy (In contrast, my previous wooden stockade fence stood without issue in the same exact spot for 17 years).So, i finally decided to reach out to the BBB on 6/20/23 because at that point 2 years had passed without any resolution to the original problem that occurred less than 6 months after the install.  Bottom line... the install was bad, the subsequent fixes were not appropriate to prevent it from happening again and that's why the fence is having the same exact problem over and over since the issue began. Tom, even stated that he would extend the labor warranty into the spring of 2023 and gave me his word he would be out to fix the fence and instead has now decided that he won't do that. This business has zero integrity and I will strongly recommend to all of my family, friends and neighbors to NOT use Leader Fence!   Regards,  ***** *****

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩