Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  06/11/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Order Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  Almost two years ago, we signed an agreement with ***** Roofing and Siding to have our siding replaced. Based on the recommendation of their sales person, we chose a red siding by the manufacturer Kaycan. Upon installation there were issues with oil canning. For months we went back and forth with ***** and ****** to try to get a resolution. ***** was blaming ****** for defective product, ****** blamed ***** for defective installation. After replacing the siding four different times ***** said they would replace the entire house with a new manufacturer and the problem should be solved. After waiting months with no communication, they finally came out October 2022 to replace the entire siding. Oil canning is STILL happening. ******* crew was out here in May 2023 to replace pieces of siding. We had requested a production manager come out to oversee the new installation but they did not send one. Instead they sent the same crew who keeps having the same installation problems. We get little to no communications from ***** ********** and team who really show no desire to make this situation right. The only way we get any type of action is threatening some time of action. Hence this complaint with the BBB. We would like this installation problem fixed immediately! No one should have to go through what we've gone through. The lack of communication and professionalism from this company is just terrible.

  

  Business response

  06/23/2023

  ****** and ******** ******** contracted with Campopiano Roofing to perform roofing and siding restoration services in conjunction with their insurance claim field with progressive insurance  (claim #********************) on or about May 29th 2020.   
  *** and **** ******** wanted to update the look of their home.  They where looking for a red house, black roofing, and white trim.     Our sales rep provided samples from two manufactures.    **** ****** ultimately chose Brick Red by Kaycan. The product was ordered shortly after contract signing and color selections where made.   During 2020, lead times on vinyl siding where 12 weeks plus on any “Non Standard” color.  All materials where available in August of 2020 and the project was started on or about August 15th 2020.  The roofing portion was completed first and the siding project was started around August 20th and substantially completed by September 5th when the gutters where installed.    We did run short on materials and the final materials were installed mid-September.  

  
  During the original installation it was noted that the crew was having issues with the product “buckling” or “Oil Canning” when it was removed from its original packaging.   There was even oil canning almost immediately after installing a panel on a wall.   Buckling, or “Oil Canning” as its commonly referred to, is an inherent issue with vinyl siding.    Vinyl siding expands and contracts as the product gets warm and cool.   Ambient temperatures, shade, sun, etc. all affect this.    Even the reflection of the sun of adjacent windows/doors/and other structures can affect how the vinyl siding moves. There are good siding practices that can be done in order to limit or stop the oil canning, however as the product is being installed in the field in imperfect conditions some oil canning or buckling can and should be expected with a vinyl siding installation.  Vinyl siding is installed to move.  We try and predict where and how it will move as best we can.   However, the oil canning that was occurring at the ******** was far more prevalent than what Campo would call “normal”.  As mentioned, before the product was oil canning directly from the box and immediately after installation on the wall.  

  
  During the initial install Kaycan was notified about this problem.   Their reps had come out to investigate, took a panel for processing by their plan, but ultimately gave us some installation tips and gave us the green light to continue.  They even provided us with an additional 4 sq of product so that we could replace the affected panels.  

  
  After the initial installation was completed, *** and **** ******** had us out again in late fall to address a few concerned spots.    This occurred on November 6th 2020.  
  On 4-26-21 we where called out to investigate more spots of oil canning.  These where documented, and we advised the ******** to contact Kaycan to open a warranty claim.  An inspection of the home by the manufacture occurred on 7-13-21.  Campo was not notified or aware of this inspection.

  
  Good Afternoon,

  
  At our Solon Ohio branch’s request I inspected the siding installation at the above address on 7/13/2021. The siding installed is Kaycan Richmond Red D6 Horizontal, installed by Campo Roofing, approximately June 2020. I was met by the homeowner, ******* ****** at the residence. There were various areas of concern on both the front and rear of the home, all of which were visible to the naked eye and documented by photos taken by *** ******* (attached). The majority of the siding installation is satisfactory, and looks very professionally installed. However in the areas of homeowner concern, there are issues with installation causing oil canning and buckling, including:
  Shutters screwed directly through the face of the siding panels, without elongating screw holes to allow for siding expansion and contraction- causing panel distortion in front of residence garage and main structure.
  Improper placement of nails in siding nail slots below windows on garage front. I unzipped oil canned panels on front of garage and found the siding “pinned” in place by nails positioned at  ends of nailing slots, rather than centered. The siding could not move freely.
  Face nailing of top course of siding at the butt, restricting movement and causing oil canning. This is evident on both front and rear of residence.
  Improper clearance around door opening and fixtures on rear of residence, causing product to bow and buckle.
  The issues described above are related to installation and not product manufacturing or performance. In review of the communications and reports previously filed, it appears we have delivered 4 square of new product to the ******* residence for repair and replacement of  product. In my opinion this should be a sufficient amount of siding to remedy these issues, and please do not attempt to re-use already damaged or distorted panels in the repair; also, additional J Channel and Finish Trim will be required to properly replace the top courses of face nailed siding. Our Solon branch will be happy to supply Campo roofing with them. And, like you, we want *** ******* completely satisfied with his choice of product and home improvement contractor.
  Please feel free to contact me should you have any questions or comments regarding this email. Thank you for your confidence in Kaycan products.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *** ***** VP Business Development and Sales Strategy
  Ohio Regional Sales Manager
  Kaycan Building Products
  ************ ******** ***** ********************
  Website **************
  
  On July 29th we made all the recommended repairs from the manufacture.
  We where called again in August for additional repairs, which where made on August 25th.  These where the same areas previously repaired per the manufacture instructions.
  On September 19, 2021 **** ******** sent another e-mail for to both Campo and Kaycan representatives indiacting that the areas repaired where still oil canning and that new areas previously said okay by Kaycan where now oil canning.   After some back and forth e-mails and phone calls it was determined that Campo and Kaycan would meet on site and inspect together to try and create a path forward to satisfy our mutual client. 
  On or about October 5th 2021 Campo and a representative from Kaycan met to determine next steps. Another panel or 2 was fixed that day, and it was also determined that Kaycan was going to take a panel and have additional testing completed, as there was not much more that could be done.    It was also determined that adding a piece of additional flashing materials at the top row could maybe help, but this was a non standard installation technique and an expansion of scope.   We all agree to wait until panel testing came back.  Unfortunately myself nor the ******** ever received actual test results back.
  In January the ********  reached back too obtain an update.   We still did not have a answer on testing or any solution as to how to move forward.    Campo made the decision to order 2 more boxes of siding, however after a few back and forth conversations with the manufacture we where told that it was unavailable and that production on the product and color had paused.
  In may we wanted to see what else could be done even without materials so we set up another service call to the home.  However based on the ******** vacation we where not able to coordinate until June 15th of 2022.   When we did make it out there, the installation crew made the determination that there was nothing really more that could be done without new siding, which was unavailable. 
  June 17th we at Campo decided to re-order all the materials for the project and completely re-do the home in another manufactures panel.  The ******** approved this new color and panel profile.  The hope was that the concerns *** and **** ******** had would be remediated by red-doing the home.  
  Siding was ordered, manufactured, and we received the materials in mid September.  (special order siding is 12 weeks to order)
  Campo re-sided the home on September 28th, 2022 with zero out of pocket costs billed to the ********.   As with any project there where a couple of punch list items, and we completed the reside November 14th 2022.
  4-16-2023 ********* e-mailed again with some small ripples in the siding panels.
  5-11-2023 our crew went back out to tear down and work on these perceived problem areas.    However, this still was not good enough and was met with hostility from the customer. 
  6-10-2023 **** ****** e-mailed again with more complaints about more areas and told us she was filling a complaint with the BBB.
  Attached to our response are sample photos of oil canning issues that we have most recently received.  As you can tell these are what I would consider to be common with vinyl siding installations.  Infact I also attached a photo of my neighbor’s home with the same condition occurring whether sun hits the home in a certain way. 
  ******’s original home had aluminum siding on it.  Aluminum siding is rigid and does not expand and contract the way vinyl siding does. 
  At this point I feel as if Campo has gone above and beyond our contractual obligations trying to make the ******** happy, but that just has not been able to happen. I believe that if any additional work is done it will not be appreciated and will just be met with more and more e-mails, calls, and other issues.   
  I am willing to attempt to fix the corner post and one more panel of siding, however I would ask a release be signed releasing us of any additional obligations pertaining to “Oil Canning” or “Loose Panels”  under our current warranty, and that the extent of the ******** complaints be kept between us, and this BBB complaint.  

   

  ***additional photos and release to be attached

  Customer response

  07/03/2023

   I am rejecting this response because:  As the homeowners, ****** and ******** ******** will not sign anything and be done with the complaint.  The fact is we keep calling Campo Roofing and Siding out due to legitimate issues. Each time they have come out has been due to canning or bubbling due to installation problems.  We do have some wavy parts of our siding but their own installers admit to us when they are here that the pieces that we've complained about were installed to tightly which caused the bubbling to appear, or pieces have been cut too short which have caused them to pull apart from the house. 

  As a consumer, it's unethical to ask us to sign something that will remove Campo Roofing from this problem.  This latest issue, especially with the first row of siding on the second floor of the front of the house. This area has been an issue on both the front and back of the house. We are not being picky - we just want it installed correctly.  Our fear is that if not installed correctly water or insects can get behind there and cause damage that could be prevented. Plus it looks terrible! 

  This is why we've asked someone besides the installation crew to come out and make sure the installation has been done correctly! If that had been done we probably would not be in this situation.  Instead we keep going round and round. ***** *********** is only going off the photos we have sent in - he has only been out here when they were trying to place some blame on Kaykan siding. 

  We are really disheartened that Campo  claims the email we sent was hostile.  There was no hostility - we are just frustrated customers who are tired of getting the brush off. And, after reading two prior complaints on the BBB website related to Campo, we fear this is how they operate and they just want us to go away. We signed a contract for a lot of money to have the job done correctly. That is all we are asking for.   

  
  

  
  

  

  Business response

  07/21/2023

  As stated in previous response.  We are willing to go out one more time to address the corner post issue and the 2 or 3 spots of oil canned siding provided in the photos.  However prior to going out, we are asking that a specific scope of work be agreed to, and a document signed stating what that scope of work is.    

  Please provide us with detail photos showing location, and issues so we can send the proper crew and materials out.  Only 1 photo per location is needed.  We do not need to see the same area in multiple photos.   

   

   

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩