Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  06/12/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  Hired providence van line movers to move me from East to North Tx and they guys they contracted out to move my stuff stole and damaged $10000+ in personal property Although they attempted to settle/cover my loses with $400 I am Still very upset and will never be able to replace broken and stolen items

  Business response

  06/13/2023

  ******* ******,

        We settled this case in-full, and you agreed to the reimbursement in the amount of $750.00. I am in possession of the settlement agreement along with the transfer proof of the $750 payment. This matter has been closed, and we will not reconsider further recourse. Thank you and have a nice day.

  Business response

  06/13/2023

  Dear B.B.B,

       Ms. ****** has the reimbursement agreement. I spoke with her earlier today, and she says that she will not file a rebuttal to my reply. She's going to allow the complaint to close, In other words. thank you and have a nice day.

  Customer response

  06/14/2023

  
  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ******* ******

• Initial Complaint

  05/22/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Resolved

  More info

  Company is not delivering my goods. They will not answer there phone or tell Me a date for delivery

  Business response

  05/23/2023

  Mr. ***********,

  I was able to relay the delivery information to you yesterday. As we agreed, notify me on Wednesday, and I will provide you your ETA. Thank you and have a nice day. 

  Customer response

  05/23/2023

   
  Better Business Bureau:
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
  Sincerely,
  **** ***********

• Initial Complaint

  04/10/2023

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Unresolved

  More info

  Providence Van Lines charged us $3,171.67 more than the $5,717 we were quoted (55% extra) for our 2022 Chicago-Brooklyn move. They also told us our items would be delivered on days outside the promised window, before failing to deliver. Providence also ignored repeated attempts at resolution, either failing to respond entirely or else repeatedly telling us that a "different department" would be contacting us, only for that department to fail to do so. We signed a moving contract for a Chicago-Brooklyn move on April 21, 2022, for a total estimate of $5002. I did a detailed video walkthrough of our apartment with Providence employee Charles R*** to ensure our inventory was adequate. We redid the contract with full packing services added for $715-leading to a total charge of $5,717-on 6/17/22. When the movers arrived on 6/20/22, they packed and loaded our items and only after told us our contract did not include packing, and so charged us $1,453 for packing (over twice the agreed on rate)-and an additional $2,275 for "extra weight" without ever explaining what was extra from our initial inventory. (There was one extra tv stand and two floor lamps, but I don't think anything else). We could not contact Charles during the pickup, but he promised us after that the packing extra charge would be refunded before drop off in NY, and that a different department would look into the extra-weight charges. That never happened, and Charles either ignored our calls, emails, and texts, or just told us when we could get through to pay at dropoff and everything would be refunded later. The movers then called on 6/30/22 (a day before our lease started and before the promised earliest delivery date of 7/1/22) and said they wanted to deliver that day, causing us to panic and move up our lease by a day and pay for an extra day of rent. They then didn't arrive that day, making the whole thing immensely stressful but totally unnecessary. We never got a refund for the packing or 'extra weight'.

  Business response

  04/11/2023

  
  ***** ******,
  
      Your goods were shipped and delivered last year, and you are just now filing a Better Business Bureau complaint. The complaint was sent over to me for investigation and here are my findings. Your inventory quoted does not match the list of goods shipped, and the shipment's cost was based upon the volume your goods accrued within the transport unit. We estimated your volume at 715 cubic feet of space required to house the whole of your goods within the transport unit. According to the onsite revision, your goods actually accrued 1,065 cubic feet of space. Also, the full-pack charge was initially based upon $1.75 cents per cubic foot shipped according to 715 cubic feet of volume. The volume shipped increased so did the packing charges. The revised cost to ship the totality of your goods was presented to you during the pickup process, and you signed the revised estimate at the revised cost to ship your goods. Now you are disputing cost? You have repeatedly mentioned being charged for "extra weight." We do not charge by weight; we charge by cubic feet/space accrued within the transport unit. I performed a full cost analysis to confirm the accuracy of your billing and found your charges to be true and correct, and accepted by you according to your signature visible on the revised contract. I have attached a screenshot of that onsite contract reflecting all charges, and those charges were agreed to by you according to your signature. Pickup, and or delivery dates are estimations, not guaranteed according to your contract. You also mentioned within your complaint that we promised you a delivery date then missed that date. No national moving company guarantees pickup or delivery dates. Please review this excerpt taken directly from your contract that confirms my statement as accurate.
  
   All pickup, load and/or delivery dates are only estimates. PROVIDENCE VAN LINES will not be responsible for loss or damages incurred by unavoidable delay. PROVIDENCE VAN LINES will act on the behalf of the customer in resolving any claims or delay issues with the carrier. There are absolutely no guarantees made, expressed or implied regarding pack, load, and/or delivery dates.
  
  We are sorry that you weren't satisfied with the cost of your move, but we did as you instructed, shipping the totality of your goods at the volume accrued within the transport unit at the cost quoted to you during pickup and you signed the contract in agreement to that cost and we executed the requested services in-full. Thank you and have a nice day, sir.  

  Customer response

  04/11/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  This response is infuriating in any number of ways.

  First, as to packing, your employee Charles R*** told me in repeat communications that the packing was a flat fee I had locked in, and not variable with the square footage estimate. That you're recharacterizing that now as based on the square footage estimate is just totally contrary to what I was told in advance, repeatedly. It is also not what I was told at the point of pickup; the movers then did not say "We realize you booked packing at a rate of $715, but your square footage is actually larger" -- instead, they claimed that packing had never actually been included and so I was being charged in the first instance because Charles had never updated the internal invoice on their end. Your claim that the packing fee increased from $715 to over $1,400 based on a square footage overage is also totally implausible; even according to your representation, the square footage increased from 715 cubic feet to 1,065 cubic feet (a 49% increase), whereas the increased packing charge was over 100% extra. Simply put, this plainly was not based on any change in the square footage; it happened because Charles never communicated to the day in movers that packing had already been booked, leading them to charge a last-minute rate totally at odds with the contract.

  Second, as to the actual square footage overage: you claim that my inventory list doesn't match the actual list, but you don't identify what didn't match. I acknowledge that, relative to the initial quote, we added 1 tv stand and two floor lamps (which I tried to convey to my contact person on many occasions prior to pickup, but he was impossible to get a hold of),but other than that, I don't think we added anything. You claim the charge related to an additional square footage of materials, but the estimated square footage was based on your employee's (Charles R***) formula based on his video walkthrough of our apartment, and he represented that that formula was almost completely accurate across moves. To the extent the actual square footage exceeded the quoted square footage, that is because your formula deliberately low-balled it, inducing us to sign with a lower quote than you knew would be charged in practice. You have, to date, not identified what actually caused the extra square footage; other than the tv stand and two lamps mentioned above, it was not extra furniture -- which lends evidence to my hypothesis that your employee's initial cubic feet estimate was deliberately low.

  Third, as to dates --I understand that all dates are estimates, but that does not explain why Providence (1) claimed they were arriving a day before the date we gained access to our lease, when our apartment was not yet ready, causing us to have to move up our lease a day and pay for the extra day, and (2) did that with about 3 hours' notice (when I had repeatedly been told we would have at least 24 hours notice before delivery).The fact that we, in a panic, then rushed to move up our lease a day early and then the movers didn't even arrive is a cherry on the case.

  Finally, you seem to imply there is something wrong in my only submitting a complaint now, even though my goods were delivered last summer. As you are well aware (I provided many screenshots of this in response to your contacting me), I tried multiple times before, during, and after the move to contact my designated contact person with Providence Movers (Charles R***) to resolve these issues. My written communications (texts and emails) were essentially never acknowledged or responded to. I tried calling Charles on numerous occasions, and he essentially never picked up any of the calls (I also left many voicemails, as you can verify). When I did get through, Charles would always say that another department would be getting pack to me with respect to the packing and square footage issues, except no department ever did get back to me. He often promised further contact later that week, only for no contact to ever materialize. I have already provided you a screenshot of one of my text messages that describes my getting disconnected from Charles after he promised he would connect us with the relevant department and instead placed us on hold for about half an hour before disconnecting us. The idea that I am somehow tardy in raising these concerns after Providence repeatedly promised to get back to us about these concerns and never did is pretty offensive. I'll admit that, by a certain point following the move, I became so discouraged about ever getting a response that I stopped calling every week or more as I had been doing, but given how much I'd tried to get in touch, that's hardly an excuse for Providence. I'm raising these concerns now because they were never resolved -- as Providence promised they would be -- last summer.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ******

  Business response

  04/12/2023

  ***** ******,
  
     Sir, please review the screenshot of your order for service. Full-packing charges are based upon $1.75 per cubic foot. Multiply your estimated cubic footage of 715 CF X $1.75 = $1,251.25. Those figures are present on your order for service, so of course if your cubic footage increases your packing charges will and did follow suit. Packing is never a flat-fee; it is based upon the math above, $1.75 dollars per cubic foot. You actually were given a discount off the total of your packing charges due to the fact that the charge should have been, according to 1,065 CF X $1.75 per cubic foot = $1,863.75. You were charged $1,453.00 which equate to a discount to the packing charges in the amount of $410.75.00 Your delivery date is another part of your complaint. Sir, it is virtually impossible, especially with long-distance transports to guarantee a specific day of delivery The reason why is that it is unknown what traffic situations, or weather situations could cause a delay and cause the truck not to arrive on the guaranteed date. No moving company guarantees specific dates of delivery. Dates are, according to your contract, always estimations. 
  
  Thank you

  Customer response

  04/18/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  

  Once again, you fail to provide any explanation as to why the cubic foot estimate given after a detailed video walk through with your employee ended up being so off what was actually counted at the day of the move, when I was asked to sign -- after everything had already been packed and loaded, when it was impossible to withdraw -- a totally different square footage amount almost 50% higher. As I have previously acknowledged, we added a TV stand and a couple table lamps from the initial walk through. Nothing further was added that I'm aware of, and you've failed to identify anything. That leads me to believe your employee was deliberately low balling the initial estimate so that we would be charged way more (and at a higher rate) the day-of, when it was too late to pull out.
  
  
  Second, the packing was always represented to me as a flat $715 rate. Your representation now that packing is never a "flat" rate and is always subject to change is entirely contrary what I was repeatedly told by your employee Charles R*** telephonically, who always told me the 'discount' you're pointing to from the square foot rate was worked out so as to ensure the $715 flat fee. Mr. R*** -- after initially describing the rate as flat in our initial phone calls -- certainly never corrected or altered that impression, and, to the contrary, continued to refer to it as a flat cost. 
   In fact, after I called Mr. R*** on the day of the move in a panic because the movers who arrived were not aware that packing had been pre-booked and were instead charging a different-from-agreed upon rate, and left him repeated voicemails describing the issue, Mr. R*** texted me back that "Everything should be fine," not what you now say that the packing came back higher than the flat $715 rate fee because of the supposedly additional square footage. (See attached screenshot). I imagine you have records of my calls with and voicemails to Mr. R***, as his phone had an automatic message stating that calls were recorded, and Mr. R*** also told me the calls were being recorded during our first call -- so if you don't believe my representations about our calls, you have a record to consult.
  
  
  Further, your math still makes absolutely no sense, as you yourself acknowledge the "extra" square footage on top of what Mr. R*** estimated based on our detailed walk through was about 50%, but the packing fee charged increased by over 100%. That's totally different from what Mr. R*** told me; while he indicated the day-of moving rate might change if there was extra materials, he always promised the packing fixed amount would stay in place. Moreover, what you're saying just doesn't square with what happened: the movers who arrived on the day of the move did not say they were charging an extra rate for packing as to the additional square footage -- instead, they said that packing had not been prebooked at all (which is totally false) and so instead I was being charged for packing as if it had not been prebooked. And you can see in the document I was asked to sign that day that while the moving estimate for the original 715 square feet and the supposed extra are broken out separately, the $1453 packing fee instead appears as a single charge for an "Additional Service" -- in other words, you're simply wrong when you're saying that number somehow incorporated the prior discount. The movers who arrived that way didn't realize packing had been prebooked -- because of some screwup on Providence's side -- and as such I was charged more than double.
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ******

  Business response

  04/19/2023

  ***** ******,
  
      Sir, your move cost was based upon the confirmed list of goods the estimator recorded during the virtual estimation phase. 87-items were recorded and you were advised according to the contract guideline which states, you are to confirm the accuracy of your list to be correct prior to pick up. Our company has an accurate list guarantee which means that as long as the exact list of goods quoted is the same as the goods shipped, your volume will not increase even if the cubic footage exceeds what the estimation software recommends. The estimation software is called Granot, in case you would like to review it online in order to research how it works. If any additional inventory is added during the pickup process, the volume is configured according to the space accrued by the totality of your goods within the transport unit. There wasn't any low-balling of your quote as you suggest. Your cost according to volume was guaranteed according to the list of goods you provided to the estimator at 87-items. I, as the head of the legal department, have the authority to pull the recorded sales calls from the company database and the estimator did not tell you that the full-pack charge was a flat-rate. It is even listed within your contract that the charge is based upon $1.75 per cubic foot. I have included the screenshot of your order for service which proves this to be true. Your packing charge was based upon 715 cubic feet X $1.75 per cubic foot = $1251.25 as the order for service reflects, so naturally your assumption of a flat-rate packing charge is not true. I hope my explanations have made more sense to you here. If you have further questions, you may give me a call if you wish. My direct line is (551) 336-9008 Ext: 1016. Thank you and have a nice day. 

  Customer response

  04/20/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  This is just straight-up dishonesty and stonewalling. I was repeatedly informed by your employee, Charles R***, that the packing was a flat $715 rate. All our phone calls should confirm this, and, as I've already indicated, Charles recorded all the phone calls. If you choose not to consult them, then fine, but you're basically just disregarding lies told by your employees to solicit business and then springing extra costs on customers day-of.

  Similarly, you again fail to point to any actual items that took up more space than included in the 715 foot estimate. As I have already acknowledged, there was one additional tv stand and a couple floor lamps. Neither additioncould remotely plausibly cause the 50% increase in square footage, and extra thousands of dollars of expenses, that were sprung on me day-of the move after the moving truck was already loaded when backing out was impossible. I did a detailed video walkthrough of the apartment with Charles R***, who prepared the estimate. Nothing was added to the move beyond what Charles was aware of and was included in your quote other than the tv stand and couple lamps I mentioned. So you can cite the software you're using all you want -- plainly Charles (who, for what it's worth, reassured me over the phone that the square footage estimate would be accurate within 10% or so) low-balled the square footage estimate to give us a misleadingly low quote, or the day-of movers used more space than was necessary in their packing of boxes, or both. The consequences of this bait-and-switch are even larger than you expected, because the square footage included in the estimate is charged at a different and much lower rate from the supposedly 'extra' square footage -- which you still haven't been able to explain -- charged at moving. 

  This is either sheer incompetence, or deliberately screwing over your customers, or both. At this point, it's very clear you have no intention of making any kinds of amends -- even as to the failure to charge the promised packing rate -- or even acknowledge any responsibility (and this is before even getting to the screw up with the delivery, where your movers gave us two hours notice they would be arriving a day before the first possible delivery date, leading us to change our lease, only for the movers not to arrive -- or the serial failures of communication, with Charles and others never responding to texts, emails, and calls before, during, and after the move seeking to resolve some of these issues). So I don't know that it's worth going through multiple more cycles of this if you're just going to provide the same totally empty excuses. But to be clear I don't accept your totally inadequate response, and the Better Business Bureau should know that Providence Van Lines is soliciting customers with so-called estimates and then changing those day-of-the-move without explanation, when it is too late to back out, to charge much higher rates and footage amounts.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ******

• Initial Complaint

  11/28/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Unresolved

  More info

  We provided Provident Van Lines with a full inventory (All boxes with size info, all furniture, etc.) to obtain a quote. We received a binding estimate of $9423.32 on 9/9/2023 and booked the move. I confirmed with Provident that they had their own fleet. A few days before our move date, Provident called to review the inventory we provided and confirm the proper size of the truck. As a big surprise, on moving day 9/24/2022, Prudential Van Lines (not Provident) shows up and loads the truck. They had traveled from New Jersey all the way to Ohio for the move. After many hours of loading, they informed my husband that even though we provided an inventory, our stuff would not fit in the truck and a 2nd truck would be required. Conveniently (likely not) there was another truck a mile away that had also been driven from New Jersey to Ohio. This obviously showed they planned this scam since 2 trucks came. They then changed the binding estimate from $9423.32 to $16,178.92, a difference of $6755.66 (72%) over the initial bid when they had a detailed inventory of every single item. My husband said he did not want to move forward and to unload the truck. They informed my husband that he would have to pay $5000 for them to unload the truck at this point, so we had no choice but to pay their demand. Our stuff was not delivered to Colorado until 11/5/22 and it was neither Provident (who we booked with) nor Prudential (who picked up our goods and stored them), but it was Atlas Van Lines that delivered. I then read BBB reviews to see that many people have had this same scam occur from this company. They need to be stopped. SCAMMERS! I want my money back.

  Business response

  11/29/2022

  ******* ******,

        You provided an inventory list consisting of 205-items. The crew packed, loaded, and shipped 276-items. Please review the attached **** of lading, along with the email from Prudential Van Lines. They sent a second truck because of overflow volume.  You signed to ship the totality of your inventory onsite, and did not dispute the cost to do so at that time. In this industry, if you add inventory, that inventory occupies additional space. The company charges by space accrued within the trucks trailer. Please review the email from our local agent stating that until now, they have not heard any complaints from you. You were not overcharged. You were, however, charged correctly for the amount of volume shipped according to the shipping paperwork attached, and you agreed to the cost to do so according to your signature on the shipping affidavits. Thank you, and have a nice day. 

  Customer response

  12/12/2022

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  

  We have reviewed the inventory and the **** of lading that was provided by Prudential Van Lines dated 9/24/22 during pickup and the 9/22/2022 estimate from Providence Van Lines. 

   

  We have identified some of the differences in the item count from the original estimate Providence received from the way Prudential decided to do the BOL, which was different than Providence. The Providence estimate counted a sectional sofa as 1 piece, while the Prudential BOL counted the same item as 5 pieces. There was a similar difference in the beds and the tables where the item count went up. The furniture and misc. items counted 63 items on the estimate, while the BOL count was 107, an increase of 44 items for the exact same inventory. 

   

  The number of boxes changed, primarily as we packed more small boxes for easier packing and handling. That count increased from 98 mostly large and medium boxes to 140 mostly small boxes, excluding wardrobes.  

   

  It is our belief that they intentionally underestimated the load space and were able to offer an estimate that was going to be lower. It was a surprise to me when I saw a second truck pull up about halfway through loading. At that point it was obvious to me that the small truck they brought would not load all our furniture. I was not informed of the overage until they were almost done loading the second truck and at that point, they threatened that if I didn’t authorize it, they would either only haul what was in the first truck or I would be charged to unload all that had been loaded thus far.    It became very apparent that the second truck was planned from the beginning as the first truck had no lift gate and the second truck did.  The lift gate was required to lift the elliptical and zero turn mower.   This shows very clear intention to drive 2 trucks from NJ to Ohio, but not tell us about the extra charge until we were put in a position where we couldn’t do anything differently.  This is fraud.

   

  I immediately called Andrew *******, our Operations/Logistics Manager who provided the estimate and left messages several times to complain about the overage charge. I also sent several emails, all with no response, which I see from other BBB complaints is the norm for Andrew as his name is mentioned as handling other situations exactly the same way.

   

  In closing, we have retained an attorney and will proceed down that route if you cannot find an amicable and fair solution.

   

  Please review our response and advise what the next steps would be for our complaint. 

   

  Sincerely **** and ******* ******

  
  

  Business response

  12/12/2022

  ******* ******,
  
       You provided an inventory list consisting of 205-items. The crew packed, loaded, and shipped 276-items. Please review the attached bill of lading, along with the email from Prudential Van Lines. They sent a second truck because of overflow volume. You signed to ship the totality of your inventory onsite, and did not dispute the cost to do so at that time. In this industry, if you add inventory, that inventory occupies additional space. The company charges by space accrued within the trucks trailer. Please review the email from our local agent stating that until now, they have not heard any complaints from you. You were not overcharged. You were, however, charged correctly for the amount of volume shipped according to the shipping paperwork attached, and you agreed to the cost to do so according to your signature on the shipping affidavits. Thank you, and have a nice day.  

  Customer response

  12/12/2022

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because: see word document. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ******* ******

  Business response

  12/13/2022

  ******* ******,
  
         You provided an inventory list consisting of 205-items. The crew packed, loaded, and shipped 276-items. Please review the attached bill of lading, along with the email from Prudential Van Lines. They sent a second truck because of overflow volume. You signed to ship the totality of your inventory onsite, and did not dispute the cost to do so at that time. In this industry, if you add inventory, that inventory occupies additional space. The company charges by space accrued within the trucks trailer. Please review the email from our local agent stating that until now, they have not heard any complaints from you. You were not overcharged. You were, however, charged correctly for the amount of volume shipped according to the shipping paperwork attached, and you agreed to the cost to do so according to your signature on the shipping affidavits. Thank you, and have a nice day.

  Customer response

  12/14/2022

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  We are responding to the comments from Providence Van Lines as follows:
  
  We have reviewed the inventory and the bill of lading that was provided by Prudential Van Lines dated 9/24/22 during pickup and the 9/22/2022 estimate from Providence Van Lines. 
  
  We have identified some of the differences in the item count from the original estimate Providence received from the way Prudential decided to do the BOL, which was different than Providence. The Providence estimate counted a sectional sofa as 1 piece, while the Prudential BOL counted the same item as 5 pieces. There was a similar difference in the beds and the tables where the item count went up. The furniture and misc. items counted 63 items on the estimate, while the BOL count was 107, an increase of 44 items for the exact same inventory. 
  
  The number of boxes changed, primarily as we packed more small boxes for easier packing and handling. That count increased from 98 mostly large and medium boxes to 140 mostly small boxes, excluding wardrobes.  
  
  It is our belief that they intentionally underestimated the load space and were able to offer an estimate that was going to be lower. It was a surprise to me when I saw a second truck pull up about halfway through loading. At that point it was obvious to me that the small truck they brought would not load all our furniture. I was not informed of the overage until they were almost done loading the second truck and at that point, they threatened that if I didn’t authorize it, they would either only haul what was in the first truck or I would be charged to unload all that had been loaded thus far.    It became very apparent that the second truck was planned from the beginning as the first truck had no lift gate and the second truck did.  The lift gate was required to lift the elliptical and zero turn mower.   This shows very clear intention to drive 2 trucks from NJ to Ohio, but not tell us about the extra charge until we were put in a position where we couldn’t do anything differently.  This is fraud.
  
  I immediately called Andrew *******, our Operations/Logistics Manager who provided the estimate and left messages several times to complain about the overage charge. I also sent several emails, all with no response, which I see from other BBB complaints is the norm for Andrew as his name is mentioned as handling other situations exactly the same way.
  
  In closing, we have retained an attorney and will proceed down that route if you cannot find an amicable and fair solution.
  
  Please review our response and advise what the next steps would be for our complaint. 
  
  Sincerely **** and ******* ******
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ******* ******

  Business response

  12/15/2022

  ******* & **** ******,
  
      The reason our agent recorded the sofa in 5-pieces on the bill of lading is because they must record each piece as it goes on the truck in order to have a complete digest of the shipped goods. That way they know if anything is missing upon delivery. It doesn't mean it takes up more space due to it being listed in pieces on the bill of lading. The reason they sent 2-trucks is because your estimated volume at the time the estimate was composed was 1919 cubic feet. A 26' box truck holds circa 1700 cubic feet of volume, so 2-trucks were needed. Your goods actually totaled 2500 cubic feet of volume in both trucks combined. The volume actually exceeded 2500 cubic feet, but the foreman rounded it off to an even 2500. We sent our trucks and our crew with the contract in hand, ready to fulfill that contract and ship the list of inventory you provided at the quoted cost. You had additional goods that you chose to ship. We quoted you the total to ship the totality of your goods and you accepted it. We operate under the same premise as any other shipping company. You pay for the amount of goods you choose to have shipped. If you increase the amount of goods, exceeding the items you initially provided us when the quote was composed, then your shipping costs will follow suit. No fraud has been committed here. We sent 2-trucks because the initial estimated volume exceeded what 1-truck could accommodate. You chose to ship more goods than you provided us for your estimate. We quoted you the revised price to do so and you accepted it. We honestly do not understand why you believe we did anything wrong here. We rendered the services you requested. Thank you. 

  Customer response

  12/21/2022

  
  

  ********

  Providence quoted to an estimate of 63 furniture and misc. items. Prudential counted 107. It was the same inventory, just counting sofas and beds as more pieces. We gave you a list of furniture and you estimated 1658 CF. for $9,423.32 on Sept 9. Wesley did a face time walk through and changed the estimate to 1919 CF for $11590.21 based on his review of the actual furniture that was to be moved. You estimated the CF based on the walk through not us. We did not add any furniture. He did not change the inventory. We did not ship more goods.  

  The following chart summarizes the estimates and the charges per cubic feet. The cubic ft according to your estimate increased 151%, using the same 2 trucks you originally estimated. The cost increased 172% as the cost per CF increased from $5.68 to $6.47.. We also see that the Manager discount was applied at a flat increment, and not a percentage discount to the overall costs. This is a clear attempt to take advantage of your customer.  

   

  

   

  At the loading on 9/24, Prudential conveniently counted the couch, beds and tables as separate pieces, increasing the item count, but the actual furniture was the same as captured by Wesley from Providence during the walk through.   If we were counting items, then your estimator should have logged it correctly during the walkthrough.  Very convenient that your estimator counted 1 and the people who pick up count multiple – a great way to create an incorrect vision of increased scope. Prudential based the new CF based on the actual loading of the same items Providence reviewed. We ourselves never estimated the CF, as that was your responsibility all 3 times.  Our responsibility was to correctly detail and show you what needed to be moved.    

  To summarize, Providence made the original estimate based on a list of inventory on 9/2. You increased the estimate and CF based on a visual walk through on 9/22 which came up with the same furniture and large item list. In our view, you lowballed the original estimate and then increased the CF each time it was reviewed and then finally loaded. You point to the item count, which is not a realistic representation of the load. The furniture inventory did not change from the original estimate. We feel we were mislead and then taken advantage of once we were loaded. That is why we filed a complaint for the increased costs.   I would suggest you make a proposal to us for remediation or we will be happy to take it to the next step. 

   ********

  Business response

  12/21/2022

  ******* & **** ******,
  
       The reason our agent recorded the sofa in 5-pieces on the bill of lading is because they must record each piece as it goes on the truck in order to have a complete digest of the shipped goods. That way they know if anything is missing upon delivery. It doesn`t mean it takes up more space due to it being listed in pieces on the bill of lading. The reason they sent 2-trucks is because your estimated volume at the time the estimate was composed was 1919 cubic feet. A 26` box truck holds circa 1700 cubic feet of volume, so 2-trucks were needed. Your goods actually totaled 2500 cubic feet of volume in both trucks combined. The volume actually exceeded 2500 cubic feet, but the foreman rounded it off to an even 2500. We sent our trucks and our crew with the contract in hand, ready to fulfill that contract and ship the list of inventory you provided at the quoted cost. You had additional goods that you chose to ship. We quoted you the total to ship the totality of your goods and you accepted it. We operate under the same premise as any other shipping company. You pay for the amount of goods you choose to have shipped. If you increase the amount of goods, exceeding the items you initially provided us when the quote was composed, then your shipping costs will follow suit. No fraud has been committed here. We sent 2-trucks because the initial estimated volume exceeded what 1-truck could accommodate. You chose to ship more goods than you provided us for your estimate. We quoted you the revised price to do so and you accepted it. We honestly do not understand why you believe we did anything wrong here. We rendered the services you requested. Thank you.

  I don't understand why I am receiving this now. According to the previous notice, this complaint is closed.

   

  
  
  

   

  Customer response

  12/21/2022

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:This is the same response we received on Dec 15. We had 10 days to respond and when I tried on Dec 20, it would not allow our response. I sent the response directly to ***** and she posted it. We are now posting our response to the business in the attached document dated Dec. 20, 2022
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ******* ******

  Business response

  12/28/2022

  ******* & **** ******,
  
       Your initial estimate was esigned on 09/09/2022, according to 202-items of inventory provided by you. You revised your estimate on 09/22/2022, adding to your list of goods to be shipped. You added 3 additional items. This means we had a live contract to arrive and ship 205-items of inventory. The estimated cubic footage required to occupy those 205-items in the transport unit was 1919 cubic feet. The reason they sent 2-trucks is because your estimated volume at the time the estimate was composed was 1919 cubic feet. A 26`-box truck holds circa 1700 cubic feet of volume, so 2-trucks were needed. Your goods actually totaled 2500 cubic feet of volume in both trucks combined. The volume actually exceeded 2500 cubic feet, but the foreman rounded it off to an even 2500. According to your shipping affidavits, the crew packed, loaded, and shipped 226-items. Twenty-one additional items caused your cost increase. We had a legal contract with you to ship 205-items @ 1919 cubic feet of volume. We would have shipped just those items for the volume cost quoted. You chose to add the aforementioned twenty-one additional items and signed the revised contract agreeing to the cost to do so. We fulfilled that revised contract in-full. We have done nothing wrong here as you suggest. Thank you and have a nice day. 

  Customer response

  01/02/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  

   

  Please see the Word doc...

   

  
  Sincerely,
  
  ******* ******

  Business response

  01/03/2023

  ******* & **** ******,
  
  Your initial estimate was esigned on 09/09/2022, according to 202-items of inventory provided by you. You revised your estimate on 09/22/2022, adding to your list of goods to be shipped. You added 3 additional items. This means we had a live contract to arrive and ship 205-items of inventory. The estimated cubic footage required to occupy those 205-items in the transport unit was 1919 cubic feet. The reason they sent 2-trucks is because your estimated volume at the time the estimate was composed was 1919 cubic feet. A 26`-box truck holds circa 1700 cubic feet of volume, so 2-trucks were needed. Your goods actually totaled 2500 cubic feet of volume in both trucks combined. The volume actually exceeded 2500 cubic feet, but the foreman rounded it off to an even 2500. According to your shipping affidavits, the crew packed, loaded, and shipped 226-items. Twenty-one additional items caused your cost increase. We had a legal contract with you to ship 205-items @ 1919 cubic feet of volume. We would have shipped just those items for the volume cost quoted. You chose to add the aforementioned twenty-one additional items and signed the revised contract agreeing to the cost to do so. We fulfilled that revised contract in-full. We have done nothing wrong here as you suggest. Thank you and have a nice day.  

  Customer response

  01/09/2023

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  Providence refuses to answer our specific complaints and objections. They send the same letter each time. 

  1) They allowed a low count estimate as they did not tell us that a "bed", one item is actually 7-8 when they take it apart. Same for couches and tables. Same items, just a higher count because of how they pack

  2) Manager discount was a flat $6,523.02. All else is a percentage of the move. Why is this a flat discount?

  3) The cost per cubic foot was raised from an iinitial rate of $5.68 to $6.47. This has never been answered. Why is the rate higher than originally quoted? 

  At this point, we are requesting that the BBB initiate an investigation and determine the answers to our complaint, not just a standard response. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ******* ******

• Initial Complaint

  07/26/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Unresolved

  More info

  I signed a contract with Providence to move my elderly parent's belongings from MI to TX for $15,000 for 2,000 cubic feet of space. I did a zoom walkthrough with the agent. He quoted the price and space at the end of June 2022. My Mom paid the deposit of $4,265. On 7/23/22 the movers arrived and saud it would be $27,000 not $15,000 and that the cubic feet was 4,500. I tried calling providence over 10 times for help with no answer from three different numbers. I sent the movers away as an 80% inrease in price was completely unreasonable. I asked for a refund and they are refusing.

  Business response

  07/26/2022

  ****** ******,
      The results of the virtual estimation were a total of 258-pieces of inventory. We can only estimate what you show us during the virtual estimation process. Your cost is guaranteed according to that specific list of goods. If we arrive, and we did to discover additional inventory, of course your cost to ship the totality of your goods will increase. You state you called repeatedly with no answer. The company is open 10-2 PM Est. On Saturday and closed on Sundays. The database record below does reflect you spoke with Ms. ***** *****. The driver was caught in traffic but was on the way.
  149940395188432707/23/2022 01:41:17 pm ***** Per driver — they are just late — On the way to her. I'll call.   24.241.244.250 Rep Remarks
  Ma'am, we had a contract to arrive, load, and transport the specific list of items you presented to our estimator during the virtual estimation. You chose not to ship that list due to the fact you had additional inventory onsite that elevated your move cost. That is not our fault. (edit
  You decided not to ship anything at all, breached your contract, and sent away the crew. We will not refund your deposit, but we will honor your deposit towards a future move within 2-years of your original date of scheduling.
  Please review this excerpt from your contract that supports our stance regarding onsite cancelations.
  The customer agrees that any refusal or denial of service, either verbally in person or over the phone, will be treated as a late cancellation made outside of the cancellation window. Customer further understands that no refund will be issued if I refuse or deny service on the day of the pick up.
  
  
   
  
  

• Initial Complaint

  07/14/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Unresolved

  More info

  On April 20, a contract was signed between my family and Providence Van Lines for a move from Arizona to Louisiana that was set to occur the end of July. My girlfriend provided the companies agent, Dean R********, with all of the furniture items we had and all that would be included on the truck. My girlfriend paid a deposit. Several weeks later she called Dean and informed him of additional items. He added then and she put down another deposit. Prior to the move, we were told to pay $950 when the truck arrived and $950 when it dropped off. When the truck arrived, the driver instructed us that we had use two times the space we were quoted for, although we had no additional items. We were told we would have to pay an additional almost $1200.00. We called Dean and explained our case and he informed us that we would not be charged if we had the same exact number of items and pieces. We believed Dean. The movers were set to arrive the following week after pick up. On the evening of July 4, the driver called and said they would be coming July 5 in the morning. We told him the amount we were told to pay. The driver refused to drop off unless the new amount of $2410 was paid, not $950. Once we were forced by PT Van Lines and Providence to pay the $2210, they finally delivered. The truck arrived with one guy on it and no ramp or assistance. The dispatcher offered to pay for movers that we solicited. We told him we would rather have professionals. He said it would be the next day and we would have to pay the storage fee and the redelivery fee. Our mothers and neighbors helped unload. We filed a complaint and were told that the driver lied and said we denied additional help from the company because we wanted to make $200.00. We informed them this was not true and we have camera footage. Providence Van Lines dismissed our case after they did not follow the original contract. We did not get a contract signed at the end of the drop off.

  Business response

  07/15/2022

  ***** ********* * ****** *******
  Your complaint should actually be filed against PT Van Lines, not Providence Van Lines. Providence is not, according to your contract responsible for any acts or omissions of the carrier as can be seen by the contract excerpt below.
  Customer has hired PROVIDENCE VAN LINES group as a moving coordinator/shipper agent and not to handle or otherwise participate in a move as a carrier in acting as a shipper agent only, PROVIDENCE VAN LINES is not responsible for any acts or omissions of the carrier or its employees or agents. Customer must pursue the carrier for all claims for property damage and personal injury or death, including without limitation, any claims for damage to property, lost or stolen goods, delayed pickup or delivery, actions of estimators, drivers, packers or movers, or other types of claims.
  You stated you did not receive a copy of your contract at delivery. I have attached that paperwork complete with your signature.
  You stated your inventory list comprised of 49-pieces was accurate. Your bill of lading attached reflects that is not the case either. You had additional inventory. The original contract that you state wasn`t followed was nullified due to the additional items you added during pickup and you were charged additionally for the added items according to the space occupied by those items within the transport unit.
  Providence Van Lines operates under the similar premise as a travel agency. Providence, as stated prior is not responsible for acts or omissions of the carrier. Once the carrier arrives the carrier is the responsible party in cases of liability. We are sorry to hear you weren`t satisfied with the processes of your move, but if there are liabilities within this case, those liabilities are the responsibility of PT Van Lines.
  
  Thank you.  

• Initial Complaint

  07/05/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Billing Issues

  Status:

  Unresolved

  More info

  We contracted with Providence Van Lines to move from ******** ** to ******* ***** ******* on 5/31/22; they showed up with only one truck when we contracted for three trucks to drive directly to Florida. They stated they would return on June 1st with three trucks, and again only one truck showed up. We had to hire a different mover which instilled losses to our buyers that were to move in in June 1st. I contacted Providence Van lines and their attorney, D L** III, stated they were not liable. Their employee who sold us the contract texted us and our buyers that Providence Van Lines would reimburse the cost for the delay. The delay cost $4800.00. They are now refusing to pay our costs for their delay

  Business response

  07/05/2022

  ***** *********
      We are not liable. No one in management has said the buyers of your previous residence would receive any compensation, as our company is the coordinator, and any service failures on the part of the agent are the responsibility of that agent. You have informed me that you have consulted an attorney. Allow the judge to decide the outcome of this case. I am not against you here, but if there is liability here it would be on the part of the carrier, not Providence Van Lines. FYI, we refunded you everything you paid us in full. 
  Respectfully, David L** 

  Customer response

  07/05/2022

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  They are responsible for what their agent promised in text messages to both our buyer and to me. The agent worked on behalf of Providence Van Lines; they are liable because he is their employee. I do not accept their verbiage to release themselves of accountability. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ********* *** *****

  Business response

  07/05/2022

  ***** *********

          Possible legal liabilities are decided within a court of law. Not by you, not by me, and not by the Better Business Bureau. If there was a breach-of-contract it was on the part of the carrier, not our company. We acted in this scenario like a travel agency. If you book a cruise through a travel agency and get injured while on the cruise, do you file suit against the travel agency? No, you do not. The contract excerpt below taken directly from your esigned contract completely supports my stance here. File your lawsuit against the correct entity please. 

  Thank you. 

  Customer has hired PROVIDENCE VAN LINES group as a moving coordinator/agent. PROVIDENCE VAN LINES is not responsible for any acts or omissions of the carrier or its employees or agents. Customer must pursue the carrier for all claims, property damage and including without limitation, delayed pickup or delivery, drivers, packers, movers, or any other kind of claim. 

   

   

   

  Customer response

  07/06/2022

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  The Providence Van Lines representative, Dean R********, did not iterate that Providence Van Lines was an intermediary agent. A travel agency is a known medium in which to book a cruise. Providence Van Lines presented themselves as the proprietor of the requisitioned contract to move the contents of our home in Pennsylvania to Florida. I do not accept this lame excuse. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***** ********* *** *****

  Business response

  07/07/2022

  ***** *********

  Sir, how better could we have given you the information that you deny receiving other than to give it to you in writing? We clearly informed you in the exact font below that we are a coordinator sir. The excerpt below is from the contract you signed. It is called an order of service. 

  Customer has hired PROVIDENCE VAN LINES group as a moving coordinator/agent. PROVIDENCE VAN LINES is not responsible for any acts or omissions of the carrier or its employees or agents. Customer must pursue the carrier for all claims, property damage and including without limitation, delayed pickup or delivery, drivers, packers, movers, or any other kind of claim. PROVIDENCE VAN LINES  will act on behalf of the customer in resolving any claims or delay issues with the carrier. The carrier maximum liability is limited to the lesser of the following: (a) the amount of the actual loss or damage, (b) an amount equal to sixty cents (60 cents) per pound multiplied by the actual weight (in pounds) of the lost or damaged article; or (c) the lump sum declared value.

  Also, your complaint surrounds the moving truck being late and costs incurred due to delay. The next contractual excerpt clearly displays the fact that Providence isn't responsible for unavoidable delay. We refunded all the funds you paid us sir. Our responsibilities to you ended there. 

  All pickup, load and/or delivery dates are only estimates. PROVIDENCE VAN LINES will not be responsible for loss or damages incurred by unavoidable delay.

  Customer response

  07/07/2022

  
  Complaint: ********
  I am rejecting this response because:
  As stated, their representative affirmed and re-affirmed financial compensation for our losses. Period. My rating on this business is a D. I have no other statements to make. I DO NOT require a reply from these clowns. They are obviously a shell company selling clams in a butcher shop. 

  Sincerely,
  ***** ********* *** *****

• Initial Complaint

  05/02/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Customer Service Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I contracted Providence Van lines after looking for a moving company and them calling and emailing me for days after. I decided to contract with them. They used another company to move me and told me when you are ready for your stuff to be delivered give them a week and call. I did it’s almost been 2 weeks Thursday. We have no furniture, no delivery date. I am 6 months pregnant in pain from sleeping on an air mattress. I have no furniture, we only have the clothes we traveled with and a 3 year old with none of his toys and belongings. I paid them half of $2400 so far. And I have to pay another $900 when they deliver however they delivered late so now I am paying someone for pain and suffering. Never again. Cheap isn’t always better. I want my stuff asap. You have all of our belongings that we can’t get to. If you tell me the location if it’s near in the same state I will go get it myself. This is ridiculous

  Business response

  05/02/2022

  ******** ******,
  
        Ma'am, your delivery isn't late. The mileage between your pickup to delivery address is 1147 miles. Below are the delivery windows according to mileage accrued. Your delivery window is 7-21-business days. You will receive your goods within that timeframe. Thank you. 
  
  Delivery times are only approximations. Delivery dates are not guaranteed. See below. 
  
  0-200 miles  1-3 business days. 
  
  201-500 miles 1-10 business days.
  
  501- 1000 miles 3-14 business days. 
  
  1001- 3000 miles 7-21 business days.

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩