Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  08/22/2024

  Complaint Type:

  Product Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  12 Aug Wesley **** * owner of Owner Builder llc and only employee despite his add indicating others and "we" several times) agreed to drive over after speaking on the phone the day before for a hour plus discussing about 12 different projects I needed done quickly. Stated since it was so mutch he wanted 150 deposit to do all the pricing when he arrived. He was very interested in several aspects of the projects on arrival ( especially the decks he stated) and spent about a hour to a hour and a half measuring decks, rooms, counter tops, locating extra shingles and going over all the details. he said when I accepted his bid(s) the $150 would be applied to the billing. after no word in 9 days I texted and got a short reply. after 12 days I asked what's up. he sent a long text stating several reasons why he wouldn't be doing any work for me and no estimates whatsoever! I asked for a refund on my deposit and he stayed his drive over and time was what I payed for. I offered 25 for gas and he tried to bargain to 75... One of the main reasons to me was him stating how far the job was and all the new work he just took on. No where in his add on Craigslist or Facebook lists a charge to come look at your work. Or any similar charge.

  Business response

  09/04/2024

  Dear Better Business Bureau,
  
  I would like to extend my appreciation for the opportunity to respond to the allegations made against me by someone whom I never even did work for.  This is a particular matter of importance, as I do not make a living by charging for estimates and then not working – especially for such a potentially large set of jobs.  To be fair, I rarely charge an estimate fee as most of my work is local and straightforward.
  
  With that being said, a company has the right to charge for an estimate.  I did not in fact provide him with a written estimate, however I provided him with verbal estimates for his staircase, his deck, and his flooring and he agreed that they were what he expected to be quoted.  He was informed up front that his property was not near me and that it would involve extensive time, and that I felt the need to charge an estimate fee which I would apply towards his work if he hired me.  This was no surprise, it was agreed upon beforehand.  His claim that I misrepresent myself as ‘we’ or ‘us’ is invalid as I am a sole owner and use my available help for jobs as necessary. 
  
  I put a lot of thought into providing him with written estimates based upon the fact that he had approximately $33k worth of work in his deck, stairs and flooring alone, and over $20k worth of roof replacement in order to make his roof safe.  The word replacement is important here, as he wanted me to write an estimate ‘as a licensed contractor’ showing that he needed ten shingles replaced.  He knew I wasn’t a roofer, and he indicated that he needed a licensed contractor to write about the shingle replacement only – and explained that he couldn’t obtain homeowner’s insurance without it due to the condition of the roof. 
  
  It became apparent to me that the reason he was willing to pay me to go there at all when every roofing company that is licensed to repair and/or replace roofs does free estimates (attached) is that he wanted to use MY WRITTEN ESTIMATE to submit to his insurance company, leaving me on the hook for a roof that is sagging and dangerous while only writing that it needed ten new shingles.  I AM a licensed and insured contractor, and I AM a preferred contractor with Home Advisors and Angi (attached), and I’m not willing to be a party to an intentional misrepresentation like this for anyone. 
  
  He slandered me on my Google page in his review, stating that he is a veteran who lives on VA disability and $150.00 represents 2 days of his income, yet he claims that he had about 12 different projects that he needed done quickly.  Again the deck, stairs and floor were over $33k and he was interested in quotes for a TON of COSMETIC work to upgrade the interior.  All these costs before the cost of a new roof.
  
  This would have been a lot of work for me.  This could have been a potential good profit job for me and my crews.  Why would I charge him for an estimate then refuse to do the work?  I make a living doing beautiful, high quality craftsman’s work and have a long list of happy clients.  It’s because of his ulterior motive which put me at risk on a moral and legal level.  I’ve attached some photos showing the top listings on Google for roofing companies in the area, and I repeat all three of the first listings offer free estimates.  There is a REASON that he agreed UP FRONT to pay me for an estimate – he wanted to pay for the estimate from a smaller, out of area company to write WHAT HE WANTED IT TO SAY in order to satisfy the insurance company who refused to insure him.  I would be willing to bet he had already contacted the other companies and didn’t get the response he wanted. 
  
  My ‘long text stating the reasons I wouldn’t do work’ for him were accompanied by an email that I sent him, attached, privately elaborating on my valid reasons for not making real money doing all of these jobs for him. (attached). Despite all this, I offered to send him back $75, and he refused to accept it.
  
  Please don’t hesitate to reach out with any additional questions or queries.  I respect the BBB and my actual clients, and don’t appreciate my integrity in not participating in this person’s scheme being met with slander.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  Wesley ****
  Owner

  Business response

  09/10/2024

  I would like to begin by clarifying the foolishness of this entire complaint. Mr. ****'s complaint has two claims - one that he made online to Google reviews stating that he is a poor veteran living on disability and I cheated him out of two days pay with a $150 fee, and the other side that alleges he had tens of thousands of dollars of work for me to do, and I am such a fool that instead of accepting the job and making money - I choose to defraud people out of $150 estimate fees instead.
  

  
  
  This is not a complaint about my workmanship. This is not a complaint about me not showing up to work, or taking a $10,000 job deposit and running off with it, this is a complaint that I accepted a $150 estimate fee that I would apply towards a job if a client accepted it, and then decided after my visit that the job was fraught with risk to me and did not want to provide any more than the verbal estimate I had given him because a written estimate put my license and reputation at risk.  
  
  
  I'm not sure how much more time I need to take to defend myself against an allegation of a $150 complaint when I'm a licensed contractor who does big jobs every day. Mr **** is lying, period. His allegations are patently untrue. I did give him verbal estimates, and offered to refund half of the $150, which he refused.   In case the copy of the email that I sent him and attached to my initial response didn't go through as he alleges, I am attaching it again. If he absolutely 100% insists on written estimates for his deck and stairs that I already gave him verbal quotes on, I would be willing to provide that in writing - however I am not willing to provide a written estimate for work on his roof as it needs replacement and I'm not licensed to do that. I refuse to provide a written estimate for 10 shingles on his roof, which is what he wanted. Since he has forbidden me to reach out to him directly but continues to make a public case out of this, I reiterate that he wanted to submit my estimate for 10 shingles on his roof to an insurance company that wouldn't provide him with insurance because his roof is caving in and needs replaced. I'm not willing to do that. He can hire a licensed roofer. I pray that this response finally closes out this frivolous case, and that my reputation stops getting attacked by someone for whom I only did an estimate.

   

  Sincerely,

  Wes ****

  Customer response

  09/11/2024

  
  Complaint: 22179199
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I really do not understand having shownMr ****s hand written recipt for DEPOSIT how  Mr **** fails to understand the difference between that (a deposit) and a $150 FEE to estimate a job! NO LISENCED contractors charges that. Highest ive seen around is $25. There is no indication on any of his websites he charges a FEE to estimate or did he discuss any FEE to estimate with me prior, or at all for that matter. Again I will say at the end of the time he spent with me he asked for $150 DEPOSIT (what he wrote to me) to spend the two or three hours it would take him to work up the several projects as estimates over the coming weekend. If any sane person were to look online you would not find anyone charging $150 for an estimate much less $50. And to top it all off I would have never paid anyone to show up to look at work to begin with that wanted anything over 25 so I know we wouldn't be having this problem had he said that up front or at any point prior to arriving or even when he was asking for the DEPOSIT. Had he said estimate FEE, that would not have happened, however, he said and wrote DEPOSIT and I have a receipt that says DEPOSIT. Perhaps Mr **** needs to look up a legal dictionary and read the difference between an estimating fee and a deposit. I paid to have estimates done so I could accept or reject them. Being how he has already refused any work his only recourse is to return this DEPOSIT because there was nothing he gave to bid on and/or did not perform any work to claim the DEPOSIT. This is a case of someone that wants some free money from someone that he thought would just give up and let him take $150 DEPOSIT and walk off with it. The answer to how long he will have to keep defending his "honor" despite calling me names and committing libel by saying I was trying to commit insurance fraud should let him know I will not stop trying to collect money back monies that are mine as it was a DEPOSIT and again I suggest he looked that word up in a legal business dictionary such as Nolo.

  I Mr **** also States he tried to offer $75 back. He fails to tell you I offered him $25 for gas which would be more than fair in my book to cover his trip. He came back with wanting half of the money and that is why I decided I will continue to come after him for this money that is not his again it was a DEPOSIT.

  I have been doing electrical construction work since 1984 and I have never seen someone take a deposit and try to tell people as adamantly as Mr **** is that it was a fee. If it was a fee why did he write a handwritten receipt for a deposit? The seeming willingness Mr **** acted to want my business displayed alongside his words here and his emails and texts are two different people. His demeanor between there and now is very shocking and I feel really stupid to be taken in like that thinking that this man was an honest person that was looking out for me his customer when in fact it turns out otherwise. I will continue to Post online on public forums and websites until I receive the money back or he decides he wants to go to court. I appreciate the Better Business bureaus trying to intercede in this affair.

  
  

  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  Bryan ****

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩