Complaints

• Initial Complaint

  07/19/2022

  Complaint Type:

  Service or Repair Issues

  Status:

  Answered

  More info

  I called Hill electric to get an Estimate for 1 outlet in 2nd fl. aptmt, 2 motion sensor lights outdoors. **** said estimate wd take 3 wks. "but for that small a job, we could do it in a few days". gave me impression Not Expensive. Sent 2 guys, bumbled around, to 2.5 hours to install 1 outlet, left huge mess of drilled wood in my basement.As they came thru the 2nd fl. aptmt, said they had to come thru under the sink, they broke the sink trap resulting in urgent plumber visit for $217. I told them to just forget the lights. the 2 guys left. When I got the bill it was for $733.14 and cited 2 outdoor motion sensor lights, which I never say, and both guys time was charged at $110/hour. I only expected 1 electrician to do such a small job, & don't know why they sent 2 to begin with. When I asked that, calling their office later to complain, they said 2nd guy just to run up & downstairs to push the wire thru "would make it quicker". Then why did it still take 2.5 hours? .I asked if he was an apprentice. She confirmed yes. Standard business practice is to charge 1/2 for apprentice time, not $110/hr for 2.5 hours, ~$275 for just his time pushing wire thru,no expertise required. I asked 3 different electricians for an estimate for this 1 outlet for my rental apartment stove, after the fact,=the most any would estimate was that it could cost up to $300 *** for that outlet.They did eventually pay the plumber, **************, directly the $217 for the trap that they broke(I'd already paid *****,had to get refund. However, they still did not remove the 2 lights, and I feel the $275 charge for apprentice time should be only half that at most, $130. I had used Hill electric in the past & thought I could trust them to do reasonable quality and fair priced work.It felt like they saw me as a woman & asked how much they could try to overcharge me, bumbling around here for 2 hours before getting any of the work done, I kept asking what is going on? I feel very taken advantage of.

  Business response

  08/12/2022

  BBB COMMENT SKW:

  We called her and we have been in contact with her - we haven't heard anything back from her. I had been emailing her back and forth - it was 217 for the plumber and we went ahead and paid that for her. If something happen we obviously want to know about it. 

  Customer response

  08/12/2022

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  
  [Please type your response here.]

  Good afternoon.  Hill Electric paid the plumber, which of course they should have done since they caused the damage to the pipes.  However, they did not bother to revise their bill ** All, which still contains 2 unacceptable problems:
  1) they have billed me for 2 outdoor motion sensor lights, with I never received, I never even saw them. They did not bother to remove those from the bill, even after I have informed them via email and phone that I never received them.
  2) they have billed the apprentice time of 2.5 hours at the exact same rate of $110/hour, ($275) while that person is greatly less skilled and not certified, and per their phone reply, yes they acknowledged he was an apprentice, and only sent along to help push the wires up from the basement ("to make it quicker"--then why did it still take nearly 3 hours for 1 outlet?)   Per *** at the ** NECA-IBEW Electrical Apprenticeship & Training, at **************************************************, ************,  "billing for an apprentice is determined by WHICH LOCAL THEY'RE WITH, and HOW FAR ALONG THEY ARE IN THEIR TRAINING" - and the range of their rate of pay ranges FROM $20 - 40/PER HOUR.  NOT --- the full $110/hour that Hill Electric charged me for their apprentice's time, while all he did was run up & down the stairs twice, requiring very little skill, yet they've charged me $275 just for his time along, while he is not even a certified electrician.  This is unacceptable, clearly, per *** at the ** NECA-IBEW it is NOT the industry standard, and yet even after I complained about it, they did not revise their bill AT ALL.  Their implication that I did not respond is also not accurate.  I expected a revised bill, whereas they have only sent the very same original bill, now adding $10/month interest fees, even though they know this bill is under dispute.
  Here is what I want.  I would pay the **-NECA-IBEW's maximum hourly rate of $40/hour for the apprentice.  $40 x 2.5 hours = $100.  I want them to reduce the apprentice's billed time from $275 to $100 (reduce by $175).  and in addition:
  I want them to REMOVE THE 2 OUTSIDE BRASS lights off the bill entirely, because I never received them, I never even saw them.  As soon as their worker broke my sink pipes, he finished up, then came downstairs & very embarrassedly told me what happened, but also not taking responsibility for it, just acting like I would just have to deal with it. ** that point I told them to just leave and forget the lights, because it had already been a ridiculous amount of time & bother for just one outlet.  They virtually ran to their trucks, after moving slow as molasses the whole 2.5 hours they were at my house.
  Accordingly, the bill should be reduced from $730  - $175 for the additional(over$40/hr) INAPPROPRIATE "Full Certified Electrician" rates for an Apprentice,;   also - $50 each for the 2 lights which were UNDELIVERED - $100.    Resulting in a total of $458.14, while still a ridiculous amount of money for one single outlet, would be the closer to fair for work by ONE certified electrician, and one APPRENTICE.
  Thank you very much in advance for considering my reasonable request.  
  In addition, it is not appropriate for them to charge me any interest since this bill has been in dispute the whole time since the service, which they were well aware of, via phone and email.  If this very fair offer is accepted I will pay it immediately.

  Regards,
  
  ***********************

  Business response

  08/15/2022

  Tell us why here...Good morning.  I will go through the homeowners response issue by issue in order to make sure I reply to all facets of it.  Hill Electric did pay the plumbers bill thereby restoring the damage we caused to a condition better than we found it (less wear).  I apologized to at the time of the incident and we promptly paid the plumber's invoice.  Regarding the outdoor motion lights; The homeowner is drawing her information from a previously explained (and agreed to) error.  ORIGINALLY our work order was addressing these fixtures as well as adding an outlet.  When the invoice was put together, our staff neglected to revise the description on the work order - but we did not charge for the fixtures at any point.  I have a copy of the invoice in front of me.  60' of wire, a breaker, romex connectors and staples. 2 boxes, a GFI outlet, a blank plate, invoice fees and labor.  There are NO fixtures charged for on this invoice - anywhere.  We have NOT billed any apprentice time.  The 2nd electrician at the property is a licensed Residential *******.  He was sent to help a licensed Journeyman Electrician.  The hourly rate for residential work is $114.00/hour for both of these levels of licensure.  Our second electrician on site is skilled and licensed in every aspect of residential wiring.  We did not acknowledge that he was an apprentice, because he is not.  When there is fishing involved at a job, it is generally more than twice as fast to have 2 people on the project.  I know when people think "its only one outlet" they think it is a small job.  There are times when it is.  *********** it is just as hard to pull in wiring for 1 outlet as it is to pull in a feed to an entire room.  This home has k*** and tube wiring in it.  In order to install a new grounded outlet, you either need a grounded wiring system to tap off of, or you need to run a new circuit all the way to the panel.  This is the reason we didn't even hesitate to schedule 2 electricians for this project as we knew it would involve fishing in a new wire.  The homeowner also states that she will only pay $40 for the "apprentice's" hour.  *** at the Union Hall quoted the PAY RATE for the apprentice scale.  The Pay rate for apprentices is roughly HALF of their total cost once you figure in contractors paying for their days spent in school, paying for their local pension, paying for their national pension,  their health insurance, and the 4 different union hall overhead fees that are required to be funded.  I know everyone thinks that these things don't count - but they do.  This homeowner telling us what she will pay $40.00/hr  for an electrician to come to her house is unacceptable, as is based on inaccurate information and uninformed industry knowledge.  The homeowner was offered a settlement and explanation on this account by me, and that was not paid.  Due to this, yes there have been finance charges added.  I will write these off once again, but if payment is not remitted, they will accrue and will be pursued.  Our bill, which does NOT include any brass lights is accurate and final.  Now knowing that the homeowner would like a new invoice removing the words "provide 2-bronze motion lights", it is attached here but it was not offered nor requested originally.  I simply explained this error to her during our first call and she was aware of it.  Thank you. 

*Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business. ↩